Pasture-For-Life beef
- Thread starter Agrivator
- Start date
its covid ,we;re really not getting out enough are we...Boom!
its covid ,we;re really not getting out enough are we...
True..... There is a Pub somewhere, with a couple of pints of really good beer just waiting for me to walk through the door...
lager for me
I did specify "good beer", but each man to his own poison...lager for me
- Location
- Glen Clova, Angus, DD8 4RD
There are plenty of good videos of the original Johnson-Su method on YouTube. It's not hard, just needs building carefully and regular monitoring. I plan to try one as soon as we get moved.
About 60 years ago, my old chap designed and sold 15-20t storage grain bins made from weldmesh rings and hessian liners, with a central aerating tower, maybe their time has come again!!
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I did specify "good beer", but each man to his own poison...
If we are allowed to go to Groundswell this year, I'll be happy to stand you a pint, IF you can find a lager.....
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
It probably won't happen in a country with an inflated farmgate beef price and area payments, either.that wont happen surely ,because you have the rent from your houses coming in.
same as my best mate,'oh i dont need to work we can live off our 2 rental properties,' (they get about 1k a month x 2.
i then reply well them do you?oh well he says i get bored doing nothing
That's largely why I got out of "production" and into grazing in the first place, £2/kg and no guarantee of getting stock away at the right time... at £350/ac I can't afford that type of business model here.
Not with a ranch this size, anyway.
- Location
- Montgomeryshire
Whilst I agree that there are certainly some crackpot ideas about, and plenty looking to find a way to make money from promoting them to the receptive through products/books/lecture tours, you maybe have to ask why those ‘died-in-the-wool stockmen with a lifetime of tradition behind them’ still run a system where average COP is above even today’s inflated sheepmeat prices, and where most sheep farms will still see a loss without subsidy?
Hmm.
Im not into all out production either as ive already said. Grazing is one aspect im interested in just like growing corn and other things, and welding in the workshop etc etc its all part of what i see as my job.
i like all ways and means and i'm interested in new ones as well i'll use the best of all that suits my situation. keep an open mind as i would encourage others to do.
Now, if someone would do my marketing and paper work , well that would be just perfect.
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
I like "marketing" what we do here, the thing is we're marketing our various strongpoints to other farmers - not various conglomerates and consortiums - so it's really enjoyable!
I suppose it's like direct-marketing meat, you can sound out your 'consumer' and actually get a feel for what they want... and maybe it lifts your game a little.
There's still a lot to be done to really make it hum.. but to make the same profit from production as we do from grazing, I'd need to adopt a hugely extractive model to produce that much beef here.. and that is simply not something I'm prepared to do.
I think if I was in the UK I'd be jumping through every possible hoop for every possible scheme, like the ones where I get £500/year for having clover and £250 per gate... £750 is a finished beast here.
Then I'd only need 3 cows instead of 6
- Location
- Ledbury, Herefordshire
Here are some infographics from a US grazed system. No idea if they are widely applicable though.
- Location
- Glen Clova, Angus, DD8 4RD
White Oak Pastures is probably amongst the most regenerative operations in the world so definitely not typical. It does show what can be done though.
I was listening last night to of Will Harris (the owner) talking to Ffinlo Costain about the operation on the Farmgate Podcast. They now farm 3400 acres and employ 176 staff including running their own abattoir and cutting plant.
when our farm did (for 25 yrs or so. )other things we sold a precentage of the produce retail, at the door, used to chitter to lots of really interesting people but it took time.
They mainly bought on price followed by knowing where it came from/knowing the people behind it and buying local, less travel plus farm fresh.
A change in farm policy brought it to an end that was bout 20 yrs ago. i don't miss it one bit.
im certainly no salesman , nor a farming consultant either for that matter.
Just an observer , that's all , just relating what i see and have seen.
Interesting comment.
I marketed much of the production direct to the consumer, from my Dexter suckler herd for 18-20 years, peaking at around 40 cows. Lots of my customers would have come here to the farm at least once, to what we called Dexterdays. Coffee, biscuits and a walk around the cattle and see how we produced the stock.
Customers bought on price, but more on provenance I think. Urban folks were really pleased to see and buy direct at that time, but box beef is common now.
I visited London once a month or so and then the Leeds, Sheffers areas 3-4 times a year, taking 8 boxes of beef, each with a 1/4 of an animal on every visit. Some went out by carrier, and I even had one customer in the Scottish Islands!
I was a decent Salesman I think... as I could talk and chat which people liked BUT, it was very time consuming and as I struggled to get the beef processed to my needs AND the 08/9 recession hit my customer base, I wound it up. Pity... I made good money.
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Long Croft Farming
Member
- Location
- North Derbyshire
"Animals kept according to Pasture for Life standards are not fed any form of grain or manufactured feeds.
These typically include high-energy and high-protein components such as soya, maize, wheat or pulses such as peas and beans. Intensive livestock production relies upon these to accelerate animal growth and production.
However, this kind of high-performance diet can put pressure on an animal’s body. They often have a shorter lifespan and experience a more stressful life than those fed more naturally."
..........the above is taken from the PFLA website.......any opinions on the last paragraph?
....also which of these systems is better for the environment and has higher animal welfare?
System 1. - PFLA certified producer. cattle fed round bale silage (wrapped in plastic and net) inside for 6 months of the year, fed, bedded (on straw!), mucked out all using a tractor, and don't forget a tractor has also been used to make the silage and potentially fert used.
System 2. - cattle out all year round, wintered on moorland and supplemented a small amount of grain because of poor nutritional quality of grazing (bales only fed in snow). Grain delivered to farm in bulk (no plastic bags) and fed out using a quad bike. These cattle never see a shed, calves also outwintered with supplementary grain but finished on just grass in the summer. No fert ever used.
These typically include high-energy and high-protein components such as soya, maize, wheat or pulses such as peas and beans. Intensive livestock production relies upon these to accelerate animal growth and production.
However, this kind of high-performance diet can put pressure on an animal’s body. They often have a shorter lifespan and experience a more stressful life than those fed more naturally."
..........the above is taken from the PFLA website.......any opinions on the last paragraph?
....also which of these systems is better for the environment and has higher animal welfare?
System 1. - PFLA certified producer. cattle fed round bale silage (wrapped in plastic and net) inside for 6 months of the year, fed, bedded (on straw!), mucked out all using a tractor, and don't forget a tractor has also been used to make the silage and potentially fert used.
System 2. - cattle out all year round, wintered on moorland and supplemented a small amount of grain because of poor nutritional quality of grazing (bales only fed in snow). Grain delivered to farm in bulk (no plastic bags) and fed out using a quad bike. These cattle never see a shed, calves also outwintered with supplementary grain but finished on just grass in the summer. No fert ever used.
- Location
- Carmarthenshire, West Wales
and really we should factor in the carbon released in the production of cereals used to fatten the animals in a non pastured for life scenario, I think that greatly pushes the balance in favour of traditional breeds fattened on grazing.
- Location
- Devon
This is the problem with prescriptive certifications. In trying to conform to an ideal, alternatives that are potentially as good, or possibly even better, can be ruled out.
Tame lambs, or orphan calves are another that, imo, would be better with some supplementary feed, even if you hold to the general principle of pasture fed is best.
- Location
- Hertfordshire
These things never can be black and white, can they! There will always be extremes of systems - 6 months housed(!!) v outwintered on tiny amounts of grain - that will find holes in the standards. On a bell curve these alternative options would be outliers. The majority of farmers that are in the middle of the bell curve could transition to feeding less or no grain, if they wished. PFLA gives them the option to be recognised in the marketplace, should they so wish to go down that route.
Fundamentally, we shouldn’t lose sight of the fact that ruminants have evolved over tens of thousands of years to eat forage and roughage. You can never kill a working animal (ie feeding young or growing frame, etc) by over-feeding forage. However, you can kill them with too much grain and, even at lower amounts, it puts stress on the liver, causes digestive ailments, causes foot problems, etc, etc.
At very low levels of grain feeding, such ‘problems’ are asymptomatic or almost non-existent and, it’s true, there may be benefits in certain circumstances - a nutritionally poor moorland being a good example, especially when the practicalities of the site are taken into consideration too.
If they were my cattle and I wanted to pursue a pasture-fed diet for them, I would look to find a way of bale grazing them somehow. It’s amazing how powerful the human mind can be at finding a solution to a seemingly intractable problem!