"Improving Our Lot" - Planned Holistic Grazing, for starters..

som farmer

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
somerset
Don’t know if the term regen farming has a future tbh, one I have a dislike for the name and second it’s lack of definition so it can evolve as “it” “we” learns allows anyone and everyone to claim to be regen......starting to see a lot of it here. And all of it seems to come at a cost oddly.
in todays world everything has to have a 'name', and the ag press are calling it that. That doesn't mean that its right to call it that though, but what else should you entitle it as ? On our patch, we look at it from a perspective of working with the soil, to improve our production. The really 'stupid' bit, is it actually costs very little, and actually can increase production, so how can the trade make money, from preaching a system that can increase production, improve soil, absorb carbon, and is far more resilient than their last 'scientific fad' ? However, those points will impede the process expanding through the industry, who is going to believe/trust you can get more from less, with the free ad on green credentials.
Our 'big' problem here, has been dry summers, killing of the ryegrass in the leys, because of the farms physical position, we miss a lot of rain, and catch a lot of wind, they don't make good bedfellows. In a decent season, we can produce huge quantities of grass, but those summers, have temporary halted, and have hit our pockets, to hard. We have had 4/5 year leys, gone after 2, or need serious overseeding, that is not sustainable. We need a grass system that works, which means stronger/resilient grazing plants, and those plants need the right 'root growth' to do that, which means better soil structure, that allows better moisture retention, and better root systems. Yield has become secondary to survival. The leys we have, do not 'thicken' out, so you can see bare ground between the plants, the difference in old or p/p where ground cover is total, is obvious. So, how much can a well managed long term grass field produce, that is what we aim to find out, because, for us, that just might be the answer.
 

sheepdogtrail

Member
Livestock Farmer
Certainly sounds frustrating. When is the last time you planted some tetraploids? They will help with soil structure and they will keep producing without water in higher ambient temps for much longer periods of time over diploid types. Years ago, I started with 30% tet and 70% dip. Now, in some blocks I am just the opposite. I can count on the tets to provide very early spring grazing (March for us) while also supplying a good amount of high quality grass in the hotter and dryer months on parts of my farm where my irrigation does not get to.
 

som farmer

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
somerset
I tend to weld up old ones but I spose mig wire costs money
good friend has just moved farm from here, to down west, and helping out, we have acquired some 'bits', to good to scrap, but not to truck down there. Several old gates, we hung a 20ft light looking gate friday, it took 3 of us to lift, and hang ! it was heavy, generally any 'old' gate, is x10 heavier than the new ones. We have plenty around that i made up 30/40 years ago, still looking good. The same applies to water troughs, we have a few 'riveted' ones, must be ancient, i do like them more, when told they sell for about £400 on e'bay, as they are smaller troughs, that money would buy a large new one ! We had a problem in some new cubicles, bolts were shearing off, checked, they had substituted 4.5 strength instead of 8.8's, more hassle, the difference in cost must have been tiny, but x several million, adds up.
 

awkward

Member
Location
kerry ireland
Don’t know if the term regen farming has a future tbh, one I have a dislike for the name and second it’s lack of definition so it can evolve as “it” “we” learns allows anyone and everyone to claim to be regen......starting to see a lot of it here. And all of it seems to come at a cost oddly.
I prefer regen to sustainable, it may be open to interpretation, but that is the beauty of the phrase in my mind as it allows most to find their own path. Regen though should be about what can be achieved within the farm gate as opposed to purchased outside the gate, just my thinking.
 

Henarar

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Somerset
good friend has just moved farm from here, to down west, and helping out, we have acquired some 'bits', to good to scrap, but not to truck down there. Several old gates, we hung a 20ft light looking gate friday, it took 3 of us to lift, and hang ! it was heavy, generally any 'old' gate, is x10 heavier than the new ones. We have plenty around that i made up 30/40 years ago, still looking good. The same applies to water troughs, we have a few 'riveted' ones, must be ancient, i do like them more, when told they sell for about £400 on e'bay, as they are smaller troughs, that money would buy a large new one ! We had a problem in some new cubicles, bolts were shearing off, checked, they had substituted 4.5 strength instead of 8.8's, more hassle, the difference in cost must have been tiny, but x several million, adds up.
Any gates that get to bad to mend I cut any good bars out of them and use them to mend other gates or sheep hurdles, you can soon spend a few quid on new gates, we have lots of little fields many with more than one gateway so about 50 field gates
 

holwellcourtfarm

Member
Livestock Farmer
I prefer regen to sustainable, it may be open to interpretation, but that is the beauty of the phrase in my mind as it allows most to find their own path. Regen though should be about what can be achieved within the farm gate as opposed to purchased outside the gate, just my thinking.
"Sustainable" is just as bad. It means what ever folk seem to want it to mean!
 

StormurShepherd

Member
Livestock Farmer
One thing that I have realised in my journey through life is that "new farmers" that is, people that have entered farming from other walks of life, or who have other irons in the fire - they seem to be naturally more inclined to be more holistic in their thought processes than many "farmer, son of farmer" type people - I have often wondered if the inherent complexity of the farming "job" makes it easier to focus on negative aspects... the "problem" focus?

I dunno. I spend some of the UK night trolling through here and it seems that farmers are intensely worried people, rightly so, because it is very much reliant on things we cannot change.. the "new farmers" by contrast are just so happy to be farming and learning and swept up with the potential of what they have... I see that in UK Jay. I see it in heaps of young farmers too, but the stereotypical farmer around here I guess is similar to anywhere else - fixated with finances and weather and sport.
Hard to explain, but I'm sure y'all know it.

Just wanted to say hello to the thread as I'm a new entrant to farming and first worked on an organic egg, potato and farm a few years ago and also on various sheep farms for lambing contracts and random odd sheep tasks.

I had to take some time out of farm work due to health issues and other work, but now looking to get back into it, as I'm in a better position health and life wise to be able to make a better go of it.

One thing my time out of farming made me realise was that I didn't like and couldnt understand the way things were done, even on the organic farm in some respects.

Recently my fiancee and I are looking to find a smallholding/croft/small farm and wanted to make a go of it in ways that made sense to me and then found out about regenerative (dont shoot me! I saw how divisive people on twitter find that word) / Holistic farming methods. I'm reading Holistic Management currently and just finished Dirt to Soil which made a hell of a lot of sense to me. I've also spent far too much time watching youtube videos on it along with zoom meetings over the last few weeks.

We've just about sold out house and are going to be renting somewhere rural so we can just go when we find place to buy. Based on my chicken and sheep related experience and what i've understood so far I'll eventually be running sheep, followed by chickens in a rotational grazing system based on rest periods, but should probably run a few cows before the sheep to make the most of the grass.

I've not read the whole thread yet but wondered if running a flock of smaller sheep like Shetlands would be better than having less but bigger sheep like a Llyens for more trampling of grass etc?
 

Humble Village Farmer

Member
BASE UK Member
Location
Essex
Just wanted to say hello to the thread as I'm a new entrant to farming and first worked on an organic egg, potato and farm a few years ago and also on various sheep farms for lambing contracts and random odd sheep tasks.

I had to take some time out of farm work due to health issues and other work, but now looking to get back into it, as I'm in a better position health and life wise to be able to make a better go of it.

One thing my time out of farming made me realise was that I didn't like and couldnt understand the way things were done, even on the organic farm in some respects.

Recently my fiancee and I are looking to find a smallholding/croft/small farm and wanted to make a go of it in ways that made sense to me and then found out about regenerative (dont shoot me! I saw how divisive people on twitter find that word) / Holistic farming methods. I'm reading Holistic Management currently and just finished Dirt to Soil which made a hell of a lot of sense to me. I've also spent far too much time watching youtube videos on it along with zoom meetings over the last few weeks.

We've just about sold out house and are going to be renting somewhere rural so we can just go when we find place to buy. Based on my chicken and sheep related experience and what i've understood so far I'll eventually be running sheep, followed by chickens in a rotational grazing system based on rest periods, but should probably run a few cows before the sheep to make the most of the grass.

I've not read the whole thread yet but wondered if running a flock of smaller sheep like Shetlands would be better than having less but bigger sheep like a Llyens for more trampling of grass etc?
Whereabouts in the country are you aiming to settle?
 

som farmer

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
somerset
BUT WHAY DONT YOU WANT LLEYNS???

j/k as thats what i run.
just because shetlands might be better at chucking at rougher ground but i havnt seen tehm in electric so not sure if their too herdwicky ..
the last shetlands we had, were complete and utter############ could not keep them in, caught most, and they went as couples, and i wouldn't watch them sold, just in case i needed to lie, the rest, 4 ewes 6 lambs, i last saw 4 miles away, and disowned them. I should have known from the low price, basically, through a mate, helping out a young lad. Overall, i didn't lose any money, but those that got away, would have been the cream !
 

holwellcourtfarm

Member
Livestock Farmer
Just wanted to say hello to the thread as I'm a new entrant to farming and first worked on an organic egg, potato and farm a few years ago and also on various sheep farms for lambing contracts and random odd sheep tasks.

I had to take some time out of farm work due to health issues and other work, but now looking to get back into it, as I'm in a better position health and life wise to be able to make a better go of it.

One thing my time out of farming made me realise was that I didn't like and couldnt understand the way things were done, even on the organic farm in some respects.

Recently my fiancee and I are looking to find a smallholding/croft/small farm and wanted to make a go of it in ways that made sense to me and then found out about regenerative (dont shoot me! I saw how divisive people on twitter find that word) / Holistic farming methods. I'm reading Holistic Management currently and just finished Dirt to Soil which made a hell of a lot of sense to me. I've also spent far too much time watching youtube videos on it along with zoom meetings over the last few weeks.

We've just about sold out house and are going to be renting somewhere rural so we can just go when we find place to buy. Based on my chicken and sheep related experience and what i've understood so far I'll eventually be running sheep, followed by chickens in a rotational grazing system based on rest periods, but should probably run a few cows before the sheep to make the most of the grass.

I've not read the whole thread yet but wondered if running a flock of smaller sheep like Shetlands would be better than having less but bigger sheep like a Llyens for more trampling of grass etc?
David Montgomery's "The hidden half of nature" and Nicole Masters "For the love of soil" are both excellent for a keen person on the learning curve.
 

Fenwick

Member
Location
Bretagne France
Don’t know if the term regen farming has a future tbh, one I have a dislike for the name and second it’s lack of definition so it can evolve as “it” “we” learns allows anyone and everyone to claim to be regen......starting to see a lot of it here. And all of it seems to come at a cost oddly.

Unfortunatley I think you may bé right.
Thé lack of a définition, and thé incohérence between farmers has mean't that a définition will inevitably come from elsewhere. Be it thé gouvernment or thé private sector.
Just wanted to say hello to the thread as I'm a new entrant to farming and first worked on an organic egg, potato and farm a few years ago and also on various sheep farms for lambing contracts and random odd sheep tasks.

I had to take some time out of farm work due to health issues and other work, but now looking to get back into it, as I'm in a better position health and life wise to be able to make a better go of it.

One thing my time out of farming made me realise was that I didn't like and couldnt understand the way things were done, even on the organic farm in some respects.

Recently my fiancee and I are looking to find a smallholding/croft/small farm and wanted to make a go of it in ways that made sense to me and then found out about regenerative (dont shoot me! I saw how divisive people on twitter find that word) / Holistic farming methods. I'm reading Holistic Management currently and just finished Dirt to Soil which made a hell of a lot of sense to me. I've also spent far too much time watching youtube videos on it along with zoom meetings over the last few weeks.

We've just about sold out house and are going to be renting somewhere rural so we can just go when we find place to buy. Based on my chicken and sheep related experience and what i've understood so far I'll eventually be running sheep, followed by chickens in a rotational grazing system based on rest periods, but should probably run a few cows before the sheep to make the most of the grass.

I've not read the whole thread yet but wondered if running a flock of smaller sheep like Shetlands would be better than having less but bigger sheep like a Llyens for more trampling of grass etc?

Welcome, I hope you find your place. Wherever that may bé.👍
 

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
Any gates that get to bad to mend I cut any good bars out of them and use them to mend other gates or sheep hurdles, you can soon spend a few quid on new gates, we have lots of little fields many with more than one gateway so about 50 field gates
I am selling some gates at the moment, welcome to come and collect, you can have them for a fiver each (y)
20210228_205043.jpg

great to watch the causes of frustration go marching out the gate (yes, still have a gate onto the road)
ps check out the trailer made out of a throwaway silage wagon
 

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

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Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

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As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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