"Improving Our Lot" - Planned Holistic Grazing, for starters..

Karliboy

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
West Yorkshire
Hill looking well compared to similar neighbouring land.
you can certainly see where I can get with the spreader and where I can’t
I need to get some more hawthorn chopped out when I get a spare few days.
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I got a handful of grass burgelers arrived from somewhere. Guessing the neighbour above has just dogged them down hill to me.

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Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
Hill looking well compared to similar neighbouring land.
you can certainly see where I can get with the spreader and where I can’t
I need to get some more hawthorn chopped out when I get a spare few days.View attachment 944372View attachment 944373
I got a handful of grass burgelers arrived from somewhere. Guessing the neighbour above has just dogged them down hill to me.

View attachment 944374View attachment 944375
sh!t that looks good, what a credit to your management.

You need a hill like this to sort out
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Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
No. For example, Perennial ryegrass cultivars are in the Lolium perenne speices. Other ryegrasses could be and are, in several different species. That is diversity as we have it today. There are quite a few species of ryegrass.

Cultivars belongs to the same species. However, as the result of many different natural and unnatural forces applied to them they went their own way or where pampered and ultimately pushed into a new direction.

Cultivars have unique properties to each other. For example: Some members of the Lolium perenne species have longer legs (tillers) than others. As a organic farmer, who produces sheep, I appreciate that I have a tool that I can allow my sheep to free graze with their teeth with out much risk of picking up a large parasite burden while I know my sheep will leave enough residual to feed the tilth and the soil critters.
These 11 were all perennials.
3 annual types as well, yep 14 different ryegrasses made up this "55 species mix" 👍

Out of the 40 or so comments, nobody had the balls to point out he'd just been sold an expensive "mix" of basically less "diversity" than the mix was replacing

I think it was 26ha at around the $200/ha mark for the seed

Putting your dries, twins, ewe replacements and a few overcooked ram lambs in one flock isn't going to bring the results you want, leading to this:
Don’t know if the term regen farming has a future tbh, one I have a dislike for the name and second it’s lack of definition so it can evolve as “it” “we” learns allows anyone and everyone to claim to be regen......starting to see a lot of it here. And all of it seems to come at a cost oddly.
People love "Dirt to Soil" and rightly so, but the one big 'principle of soil health" that missed the final edit speaks volumes - the journey began with "not selling the crops" and it is literally glossed over amongst regenerative agriculture proponents because the next question is revealing:

"Now that you have healthier soil and don't use synthetic fertiliser, are you still comfortable selling fertility off your ranch as a commodity producer"
 

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
What on Earth are plants and fungi gonna do with $100 mill, go to Vegas?

I personally think this token gesture is great, just like Bill Gate's token gestures and the idea that sunflowers will save the planet is great

Regenerative agriculture is still agriculture..

It's still facilitating all the major problems in the western world, allowing time that once would have been taken up by "survival" to be dedicated instead to polluting activities... commuting... holidaying... consuming... wasting.... 🤷‍♂️
 

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
Then on the other hand, sunflowers etc made my field look great 9 months down the road... allowed us to sell one final "crop" which then paid for a whole heap of future flexibility.
It was really only a matter of shutting the gate, (I think) not sowing annuals.. but sowing the annuals meant the gate definitely stayed shut, IYSWIM?

Now we can run a hobby mob for the house without impacting our grazing business, without making compromises or making work, so it's been a fantastic year.

And we shouldn't need to "sell livestock" ever again.

Only the service of homing other's, to do the heavy lifting
 
Elon Musk and Bill Gates walk into a bar.....

Here's a thought. Maybe all this existence has a built in life span. Perhaps it's all due to end, at some point in the distant future. That all the nutrients for life as we know it eventually run out. Just that some methods help that process along a lot faster than intended, and other processes slow it down closer to a speed that may have been intended. I laugh sometimes when I see people tie themselves in knots "...but that's extractive too!" Yeah, maybe, but maybe on some level it's supposed to be, and anyway isn't it better than this other "traditional" *coughbullshitcought* practice. After all isn't our sun due to burn out eventually, won't be many on this planet worrying about extractive processes at that point. Is that "do no harm" type thinking just another human God fantasy where we've convinced ourselves that this idealistic baseline, or one we've created in our heads, is how and where it's meant to be.
 

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
Elon Musk and Bill Gates walk into a bar.....

Here's a thought. Maybe all this existence has a built in life span. Perhaps it's all due to end, at some point in the distant future. That all the nutrients for life as we know it eventually run out. Just that some methods help that process along a lot faster than intended, and other processes slow it down closer to a speed that may have been intended. I laugh sometimes when I see people tie themselves in knots "...but that's extractive too!" Yeah, maybe, but maybe on some level it's supposed to be, and anyway isn't it better than this other "traditional" *coughbullshitcought* practice. After all isn't our sun due to burn out eventually, won't be many on this planet worrying about extractive processes at that point. Is that "do no harm" type thinking just another human God fantasy where we've convinced ourselves that this idealistic baseline, or one we've created in our heads, is how and where it's meant to be.
I don't think "life" will stop, life has always adapted to suit its environs.

Human life will struggle, because we tend toward forcing the environs to change to suit us

"The meek shall inherit the Earth"

It's never been a nutrient shortage, only farmers buy that story, because of the scarcity mentality that drives them - ask yourself, why do countries with the highest number of consumers per sq mile throw their farmers the most bones?
Yes, those consumers pay taxes, but the illusion is necessary to keep that fear of "not enough" in the minds of all.

Will money-throwing be the solution to the problem that money brought about in the first place?
 

holwellcourtfarm

Member
Livestock Farmer
I don't think "life" will stop, life has always adapted to suit its environs.

Human life will struggle, because we tend toward forcing the environs to change to suit us

"The meek shall inherit the Earth"

It's never been a nutrient shortage, only farmers buy that story, because of the scarcity mentality that drives them - ask yourself, why do countries with the highest number of consumers per sq mile throw their farmers the most bones?
Yes, those consumers pay taxes, but the illusion is necessary to keep that fear of "not enough" in the minds of all.

Will money-throwing be the solution to the problem that money brought about in the first place?
I'd argue that, while the invention of agriculture was an ecologically bad move, the invention of money was the worst human crime. It removed the link between cause and effect in most human motivations.
 
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som farmer

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
somerset
there is a group of 'nearly sensible' people that would argue that we are not the first civilisation to inhabit this planet, and would give evidence to 'prove' that, including a place where it would appear a nuclear explosion occurred.
The mayans said the world would finish 2 yrs ago, or thereabouts. Whether right or wrong, there are plenty of things from 1000's years back, they cannot explain.
Today, we are told the world is being 'killed' by us humans, or the main cause, intensive agriculture., the connection between intensive ag, and population survival, doesn't seem to have been made/realised.
So following on from John Galway's point, why should we bother to try and help to save the world, if it's going to collapse anyway. That is easy, it may not. But mankind is having a serious attempt to kill us all off, and we know that life will have to change, to survive, and to survive, farming has to be a central point, as it holds the answers, from food supply, to carbon absorption. It's a sobering thought that so much is dependant on us, but mainstream think we are a major cause of it's demise. So where does that leave us, how/when will that penny drop. Regen ag is a theme that is growing, but so is the clearing of rain forests, desertification, and intensive farming, the latter is, abroad, heavily dependant on modern drugs. A nice lady locally, tells us her son in law, is being paid to break 1,000's of acres of virgin ground in africa, fine if 'properly' farmed, or not.
One could go on and on, with examples of what is wrong, but we need clear answers/guides as to how guv's want us to produce food, is it better to intensify farming in 'civilised' countries, where we have the know how to do it, or do we source our food from countries, that don't give a toss about environment. It's fine us few doing our 'bit' but it's a drop in the ocean, compared to what's needed.
A bit of deep physiology, for the first day of spring, looks great outside, but am mindful of the saying, march, in like a lion, out like a lamb. I did remember the whole saying, half your corn, and half your hay, on candlemass day, which was 2nd feb, so on one side, spring, the other middle of winter, no wonder we get confused ! The grazing season is just round the corner, and i hope it's going to be a good one.
 

holwellcourtfarm

Member
Livestock Farmer
there is a group of 'nearly sensible' people that would argue that we are not the first civilisation to inhabit this planet, and would give evidence to 'prove' that, including a place where it would appear a nuclear explosion occurred.
The mayans said the world would finish 2 yrs ago, or thereabouts. Whether right or wrong, there are plenty of things from 1000's years back, they cannot explain.
Today, we are told the world is being 'killed' by us humans, or the main cause, intensive agriculture., the connection between intensive ag, and population survival, doesn't seem to have been made/realised.
So following on from John Galway's point, why should we bother to try and help to save the world, if it's going to collapse anyway. That is easy, it may not. But mankind is having a serious attempt to kill us all off, and we know that life will have to change, to survive, and to survive, farming has to be a central point, as it holds the answers, from food supply, to carbon absorption. It's a sobering thought that so much is dependant on us, but mainstream think we are a major cause of it's demise. So where does that leave us, how/when will that penny drop. Regen ag is a theme that is growing, but so is the clearing of rain forests, desertification, and intensive farming, the latter is, abroad, heavily dependant on modern drugs. A nice lady locally, tells us her son in law, is being paid to break 1,000's of acres of virgin ground in africa, fine if 'properly' farmed, or not.
One could go on and on, with examples of what is wrong, but we need clear answers/guides as to how guv's want us to produce food, is it better to intensify farming in 'civilised' countries, where we have the know how to do it, or do we source our food from countries, that don't give a toss about environment. It's fine us few doing our 'bit' but it's a drop in the ocean, compared to what's needed.
A bit of deep physiology, for the first day of spring, looks great outside, but am mindful of the saying, march, in like a lion, out like a lamb. I did remember the whole saying, half your corn, and half your hay, on candlemass day, which was 2nd feb, so on one side, spring, the other middle of winter, no wonder we get confused ! The grazing season is just round the corner, and i hope it's going to be a good one.
In the end none of us are personally going to "save the world", even if we become the next Gabe Brown or Allan Savory. We in this thread generally seem to accept that and so focus on doing what we can to make our own bit of the world work better.

I'm concerned about the damage being done to the world by others but I'm not personally responsible for that and can't personally stop it.
 

Treg

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Cornwall
there is a group of 'nearly sensible' people that would argue that we are not the first civilisation to inhabit this planet, and would give evidence to 'prove' that, including a place where it would appear a nuclear explosion occurred.
The mayans said the world would finish 2 yrs ago, or thereabouts. Whether right or wrong, there are plenty of things from 1000's years back, they cannot explain.
Today, we are told the world is being 'killed' by us humans, or the main cause, intensive agriculture., the connection between intensive ag, and population survival, doesn't seem to have been made/realised.
So following on from John Galway's point, why should we bother to try and help to save the world, if it's going to collapse anyway. That is easy, it may not. But mankind is having a serious attempt to kill us all off, and we know that life will have to change, to survive, and to survive, farming has to be a central point, as it holds the answers, from food supply, to carbon absorption. It's a sobering thought that so much is dependant on us, but mainstream think we are a major cause of it's demise. So where does that leave us, how/when will that penny drop. Regen ag is a theme that is growing, but so is the clearing of rain forests, desertification, and intensive farming, the latter is, abroad, heavily dependant on modern drugs. A nice lady locally, tells us her son in law, is being paid to break 1,000's of acres of virgin ground in africa, fine if 'properly' farmed, or not.
One could go on and on, with examples of what is wrong, but we need clear answers/guides as to how guv's want us to produce food, is it better to intensify farming in 'civilised' countries, where we have the know how to do it, or do we source our food from countries, that don't give a toss about environment. It's fine us few doing our 'bit' but it's a drop in the ocean, compared to what's needed.
A bit of deep physiology, for the first day of spring, looks great outside, but am mindful of the saying, march, in like a lion, out like a lamb. I did remember the whole saying, half your corn, and half your hay, on candlemass day, which was 2nd feb, so on one side, spring, the other middle of winter, no wonder we get confused ! The grazing season is just round the corner, and i hope it's going to be a good one.
Intensify western farming...Living/ farming in probably one of the most intensely farmed areas, I can tell you it won't work without a complete change of mindset.
Most of the farms here are multi cropped veg farms & ....flowers :rolleyes:
The growers are changing and are starting to cover crop but the problem still is when you grow a crop in wide rows , when it rains the soil disappears, over 10yrs you haven't got a good soil left.
A neighbour has rented out for Broccoli for 5 years his bottom hedges used to be 4ft plus high now there 18 inches.
Flowers - hundreds of acres not picked this year, looks nice but a damaging crop that in the end has no real use ( especially when not picked ) , they seem to grow well in the verges so probably better cropped from there

:)
 
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Treg

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Cornwall
In the end none of us are personally going to "save the world", even if we become the next Gabe Brown or Allan Savory. We in this thread generally seem to accept that and so focus on doing what we can to make our own bit of the world work better.

I'm concerned about the damage being done to the world by others but I'm not personally responsible for that and can't personally stop it.
Everything we do has a impact so personally I do feel responsible for the damage being done to the planet, I think we all have a responsibility to do our bit.
Until everybody takes responsibility for their actions things won't change.
 

holwellcourtfarm

Member
Livestock Farmer
Everything we do has a impact so personally I do feel responsible for the damage being done to the planet, I think we all have a responsibility to do our bit.
Until everybody takes responsibility for their actions things won't change.
I DO feel responsible, I just don't feel that I will change the world.

I keep niggling away at it, like my involvement with trying to shape ELMS, but I'm not expecting the world to take that much notice of me.
 

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