Brewers grains

foodforthought · Mar 10, 2021

Hello Everyone

I work for a feed merchant, dont hold it against me, i cant say which company for obvious reasons.

id like to hear your opinion on brewers grains considering where the current market is.

would any of you consider contracting brewers grains for 6 months (april to september) at around £42/tn with a guaranteed supply slapped on to it and pitting (at a reduced price) so you can have your own supply in winter, thus basically guaranteeing a 12 month supply. (hypothetical scenario)

that price in particular is based against soya going £370/tn and rapemeal £250/tn on futures up to August. Against those prices brewers grains are worth £47-£50/tn on a protein basis. this makes them a cheaper option to feed, plus all the other benefits of the product.

but where do you, the farmer, value brewers grains this summer to feed and why ?

i thank in advance anyone who responds to this

beefandsleep · Mar 10, 2021

For pitting you would have to discount to take into account wastage due to spoilage of top and face, it also won’t come out of the pit with the same ME or CP that went in. Probably around 25%

upnortheast · Mar 10, 2021

My rule of thumb used to be grains need to be same price as milk , so £30 = 30p to be economical
With the current cost of soya / rape that formula probably needs a tweak

pappuller · Mar 10, 2021

foodforthought said:
Hello Everyone

I work for a feed merchant, dont hold it against me, i cant say which company for obvious reasons.

id like to hear your opinion on brewers grains considering where the current market is.

would any of you consider contracting brewers grains for 6 months (april to september) at around £42/tn with a guaranteed supply slapped on to it and pitting (at a reduced price) so you can have your own supply in winter, thus basically guaranteeing a 12 month supply. (hypothetical scenario)

that price in particular is based against soya going £370/tn and rapemeal £250/tn on futures up to August. Against those prices brewers grains are worth £47-£50/tn on a protein basis. this makes them a cheaper option to feed, plus all the other benefits of the product.

but where do you, the farmer, value brewers grains this summer to feed and why ?

i thank in advance anyone who responds to this

Mash filter grains are shite to store through the summer months in my opinion.

foodforthought · Mar 10, 2021

beefandsleep said:
For pitting you would have to discount to take into account wastage due to spoilage of top and face, it also won’t come out of the pit with the same ME or CP that went in. Probably around 25%

thank you for your answer. Yes pitting is usually expected on our side between £35 and £30/tn most years. some years, like 2018, were an exeption.

but oltimitely that sounds like a business deal that you would entertain ?

foodforthought · Mar 10, 2021

upnortheast said:
My rule of thumb used to be grains need to be same price as milk , so £30 = 30p to be economical
With the current cost of soya / rape that formula probably needs a tweak

thank you for your answer.

we hear that comparison a lot or againts value of grass sialge.

however if you could replace a 1kg or 1.5kg of parlour cake or blend which will be now £240 to £280/tn with brewers grains which at £42/tn would cost £168 per tn of dry matter. Wouldnt that saving be enough to justify the cost of buying Brewers grains at that price ?

thanks

Celt83 · Mar 10, 2021

foodforthought said:
Hello Everyone

I work for a feed merchant, dont hold it against me, i cant say which company for obvious reasons.

id like to hear your opinion on brewers grains considering where the current market is.

would any of you consider contracting brewers grains for 6 months (april to september) at around £42/tn with a guaranteed supply slapped on to it and pitting (at a reduced price) so you can have your own supply in winter, thus basically guaranteeing a 12 month supply. (hypothetical scenario)

that price in particular is based against soya going £370/tn and rapemeal £250/tn on futures up to August. Against those prices brewers grains are worth £47-£50/tn on a protein basis. this makes them a cheaper option to feed, plus all the other benefits of the product.

but where do you, the farmer, value brewers grains this summer to feed and why ?

i thank in advance anyone who responds to this

With the predicted lockdown easing and if the scheduled/rescheduled of sports events go ahead this year is your quote of £42/t a smidge high?

foodforthought · Mar 10, 2021

pappuller said:
Mash filter grains are shite to store through the summer months in my opinion.

thank you for your answer.

with the hot summer we have had brewers grains,when kept too long, can go off quicker. We dont really have anyone that feeds over a load a month in the summer months. When pitting a sheet of thin film, or even a light layer of salt, stops that surface rot.

thank you

foodforthought · Mar 10, 2021

Celt83 said:
With the predicted lockdown easing and if the scheduled/rescheduled of sports events go ahead this year is your quote of £42/t a smidge high?

When looking at it from a supply and deamand point of view then yes. The deal loads that can be had because of the excess supply will be cheaper as the year goes on but never guaranteed. a shift in weather can turn the tables for either party.

However if you look at Relative feed value £42/tn will be more cost effective than any other source of protein on the forecasted market and will bring you a considerable saving but also all the health benefits that come from the product.

to Level with you brewers grains are being more and more sought after by Anaerobic digesters who are willing to pay top price becasue, as you see the benefits in a cow, you see the benefits in AD's. The days of brewers grains at £25/tn are gone. This product these day has to be sold against other product like soya and rapemeal to add value to make any margin on it becasue of how much we have to pay for them and the distance of hauling them is getting furhter and further with more and more dairy farms going out of business in east and central UK.

That is why brewers grains these days are sold against RFV. And there is a way of guaranteeing supply through summer pitting.

beefandsleep · Mar 10, 2021

foodforthought said:
thank you for your answer. Yes pitting is usually expected on our side between £35 and £30/tn most years. some years, like 2018, were an exeption.

but oltimitely that sounds like a business deal that you would entertain ?

If I had a pit available, at £30 yes but less keen on mash grains, virtually impossible to stack more than a meter and a half high, traditional whole grain sort yes, would it be pressed? I’ve had loads that were full of tank washings before and not happy.

beefandsleep · Mar 10, 2021

Also would it be a guaranteed minimum dry matter, say 23%? With price adjustments if wetter?

Celt83 · Mar 10, 2021

foodforthought said:
When looking at it from a supply and deamand point of view then yes. The deal loads that can be had because of the excess supply will be cheaper as the year goes on but never guaranteed. a shift in weather can turn the tables for either party.

However if you look at Relative feed value £42/tn will be more cost effective than any other source of protein on the forecasted market and will bring you a considerable saving but also all the health benefits that come from the product.

to Level with you brewers grains are being more and more sought after by Anaerobic digesters who are willing to pay top price becasue, as you see the benefits in a cow, you see the benefits in AD's. The days of brewers grains at £25/tn are gone. This product these day has to be sold against other product like soya and rapemeal to add value to make any margin on it becasue of how much we have to pay for them and the distance of hauling them is getting furhter and further with more and more dairy farms going out of business in east and central UK.

That is why brewers grains these days are sold against RFV. And there is a way of guaranteeing supply through summer pitting.

The main reason people traditionally pit in the summer months is to take advantage of a cheaper "seasonal" price?

If the digesters have got a hold of it then realistically it's probably the end of it as an animal feed, as the price will only go one way.

Not trying to create an argument as we use brewers grains and like it, but if its £42 for clamping what's it going to be come winter?

buffalo_soldier · Mar 10, 2021

Good but very variable byproduct.
Consistently of supply are issues, cows like consistency.
Other problem is the trade like to value it against straights. Whereas it's really used mainly as a forage extender. When valued as such, sending it to digesters seems to be the norm now.
Which brings me back to my second point.

foodforthought · Mar 10, 2021

beefandsleep said:
Also would it be a guaranteed minimum dry matter, say 23%? With price adjustments if wetter?

that is something that would be possible as we do test all loads for DM% but then we would ask you pay more is they where higher than 23%DM. that would have to work both ways.

foodforthought · Mar 10, 2021

Celt83 said:
The main reason people traditionally pit in the summer months is to take advantage of a cheaper "seasonal" price?

If the digesters have got a hold of it then realistically it's probably the end of it as an animal feed, as the price will only go one way.

Not trying to create an argument as we use brewers grains and like it, but if its £42 for clamping what's it going to be come winter?

the £42/tn wouldnt be for clamping, that would be for regular feed loads from april to septmeber. if you wanted to clamp also to have grains over winter then that price ususally drops £35-£30/tn.

the point im trying to make is this. the majour issue of why so many have moved away from feeding brewers is becasue they arent as cheap as they used to be, and now they are still cheap compared to other products, but when you get to winter you are guaranteed to run out. So what i am saying is if you feed brewers at a price which is favourable for both farmer and supplierin the summer, you pitt at a cheap price in summer to bank a certain amount for winter and you have guaranteed grains AYR. And even if you keep having the odd fresh load in winter at an extra £10/tn, the brewers you pitted at £35-30/tn in summer average the price out to a cheap feed all year. if that makes sense

foodforthought · Mar 10, 2021

buffalo_soldier said:
Good but very variable byproduct.
Consistently of supply are issues, cows like consistency.
Other problem is the trade like to value it against straights. Whereas it's really used mainly as a forage extender. When valued as such, sending it to digesters seems to be the norm now.
Which brings me back to my second point.

thank you for your answer.

to answer your first point, yes it is a variable product, but ist eveything ? just becasue a straight is dry it doesnt mean it will be what it says on the tin. A load of Maize distiller can vary from 28%CP all the way to 35%CP, we have done the tests. The same with wheatfeed, wheat from one farm might be terrible and from another great, then you variability. The same with Wheat Distillers. All products are variable.

your second point, yes that is a big issue. and the only way a farmer can guarantee himself a constant supply AYR is to have the room to pitt 100 or 200tns and tuck them away for winter when supply is bad. But also not everyone has the room on farm to do it.

we value brewers grains agaisnt straight becasue thats how it is purchased from the brewerys. they see where the straight prices are, wack it on a formula and here we are now.

to your lasy point, why cant it be comapred to a straight instead of forage? if you have to buy rapemeal at £270/tn (£3 per unit of DM) now, and could instead use brewers grains at a cost of £42/tn (£1.7 per unit of dry matter) youd save a decent amount of money. Also brewers grains drive intakes and we have clietns who have in the past taken grains out becasue they needed to save forage because the cows were eating so much.

Derrick Hughes · Mar 10, 2021

pappuller said:
Mash filter grains are shite to store through the summer months in my opinion.

Fantastic for sealing off crimp grain

The Son · Mar 10, 2021

foodforthought said:
When looking at it from a supply and deamand point of view then yes. The deal loads that can be had because of the excess supply will be cheaper as the year goes on but never guaranteed. a shift in weather can turn the tables for either party.

However if you look at Relative feed value £42/tn will be more cost effective than any other source of protein on the forecasted market and will bring you a considerable saving but also all the health benefits that come from the product.

to Level with you brewers grains are being more and more sought after by Anaerobic digesters who are willing to pay top price becasue, as you see the benefits in a cow, you see the benefits in AD's. The days of brewers grains at £25/tn are gone. This product these day has to be sold against other product like soya and rapemeal to add value to make any margin on it becasue of how much we have to pay for them and the distance of hauling them is getting furhter and further with more and more dairy farms going out of business in east and central UK.

That is why brewers grains these days are sold against RFV. And there is a way of guaranteeing supply through summer pitting.

I think the AD threat is a marketing ploy to get the price up, I tried brewers grains early on in the process and they gave me 120m3 of gas per tonne at best, when you take into account wastage in the pit they are not worth anymore than £30/tonne delivered for AD in my opinion.

buffalo_soldier · Mar 10, 2021

foodforthought said:
thank you for your answer.

to answer your first point, yes it is a variable product, but ist eveything ? just becasue a straight is dry it doesnt mean it will be what it says on the tin. A load of Maize distiller can vary from 28%CP all the way to 35%CP, we have done the tests. The same with wheatfeed, wheat from one farm might be terrible and from another great, then you variability. The same with Wheat Distillers. All products are variable.

your second point, yes that is a big issue. and the only way a farmer can guarantee himself a constant supply AYR is to have the room to pitt 100 or 200tns and tuck them away for winter when supply is bad. But also not everyone has the room on farm to do it.

we value brewers grains agaisnt straight becasue thats how it is purchased from the brewerys. they see where the straight prices are, wack it on a formula and here we are now.

to your lasy point, why cant it be comapred to a straight instead of forage? if you have to buy rapemeal at £270/tn (£3 per unit of DM) now, and could instead use brewers grains at a cost of £42/tn (£1.7 per unit of dry matter) youd save a decent amount of money. Also brewers grains drive intakes and we have clietns who have in the past taken grains out becasue they needed to save forage because the cows were eating so much.

I think we broadly agree.
It's interesting about how the brewer's value their waste. I always assumed it was in part a tender process. Otherwise the supply would never change hands.

The costing, I haven't oodles of time at the moment sorry.

upnortheast · Mar 10, 2021

The Son said:
hen you take into account wastage in the pit they are not worth anymore than £30/tonne delivered for AD in my opinion.

which takes us neatly back to my post #3 on this thread

Brewers grains

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0 %

Up to 25%

25-50%

50-75%

75-100%

100% I’ve had enough of farming!

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