I was led to believe that stuff stayed in the rumen for three days, which allows us to feed two days straw, one day silage (or vice versa, depending on condition) to our dry cows without upsetting their digestion too much. If this is so, then the seeds will take at least two days to 'come through'. I noticed birds foot trefoil and meadow vetchling spreading round our pastures from one very flowery meadow, so last year changed the rotation to see if we could spread them backwards round the fields from the same starting point. In no hurry for instant results here...
"Improving Our Lot" - Planned Holistic Grazing, for starters..
- Thread starter Kiwi Pete
- Start date
- Location
- somerset
over the years i have ploughed through numerous 'plots' where we have fed bales in a round feeder, it isn't the best, and those patches are visible for couple of years, and i don't think it 'works'. I see the same problems with feeding bales in situ, with kale, being modern and go ahead, we dispensed with the ideal way, tractor, trailor, little bales, and chucking it off in a long line, but 2 people. Fodder here is to valued to just roll out round bales. We keep moving the feeders, to avoid the worst. I haven't got an answer, other than running them back on to concrete, which leads to ruined gateways etc. I can well see why we were so keen, to house cattle over the winter, years ago, son has been muttering about the 'mess', and our ground is dry, what some outwinter on, i dread to think. That's the downside, the up, is considerable cost savings, and generally cattle look well, and less work. I think on this one, i'll leave him to decide !, might just mention under sowing the barley with grass, but he's got to do it, so he can reach his own conclusions.
Changing the subject, watched a dairy disposal on marteye, yesterday, prices through the roof, market reports, prices are scary, 900 hogs, av £131/ head, beef through the roof, barreners, calves, store cattle/sheep, similar. It scares me, either stock is short, or it's a false market, and a big fall, will occur, while it's welcome, long term, just don't know.
- Location
- Quebec, Canada
That is interesting about the digestion. They do forage testing on NDF20,NDF30,NDF240( or thereabouts ) so I thought that meant that some things that are less fibrous go through quicker.?
- Location
- somerset
fresh green grass does, i went to a feed meeting, speaker told us palm kernal, passes through the cow, naturally, quicker than the cow can actually process it, and yet, we are told to use it, it's in loads of rations, NZ lads use it straight.
Been wary of rations containing since, unless by grinding it down, it's digested better, but definitely wouldn't feed as a straight.
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
It's a similar situation to going to the Dr these days, prescribed this and then you go back for the side effects, and get prescribed something else for that.. and so on..
Hence the prescriptive "just graze the grass right down in the spring and use as much N as possible to drive production" thing is more about creating lots of little headaches than actually making sure the planet doesn't go short of whole milk powder and AMF - the fibre they 'need' to import in summer is no different to the fibre they lost when they topped in the springtime
Johnny Whiteheads
Member
- Location
- somerset
as palm oil is one of the really nasty carbon/deforest produce, then if i was correct, with it's feed value, it should either be dirt cheap, as a disposal route, or we have been conned, again, bit harsh but. The animal compound feed industry has history for using 'dubious fillers', many can remember feather meal, ground up chicken feathers, poultry manure, dried, and others. When they were forced to declare ingredients, it was a shock, anything cheap was bought and included, we got caught by using xy, contaminated by lead, we had to dump the milk for fair time, fine, we didn't lose any money, they had to pay. And it was soon sorted, by the legislation. I do however, wonder at what shite is put into cheap processed human food, is the legislation as strict ?
As for doctors and pills, it seems a miracle they all agree with each other, i have a pain relief 'plan', for which i can alter around, depending on pain level, top drug morphine, if i get anywhere close to need that, it's usually a blue light job, so i avoid it like the devil, but i do get concerned about the dosages, and what they all do, mixed up. Mine are all straight pain control, but other people seem to have a 'pick and mix' job.
If it was up to me by myself then bales would be put out in the field ready for use. Or stacked in a corner somewhere to be put out with a tractor once a fortnight or something. But I'm not the only one here
it took a month of going with a bale every day before I was able to persuade dad (he likes driving tractors so I let him do it as he can't do much physical work anymore) that he could take 2 bales with him every time and dump one over the electric fence so he only had to go every other day. So it will probably be 2 or 3 in at a time on the tractor again and take more when it's dry or frozen.He's still very traditional in his thinking and a couple of years ago would have been one of these talking about how mad I am
but he's seeing how well it's all working and more importantly how much money it's saving so is much more keen than he was. He even asked if I was going to go and measure grass on Monday I was just going to wing so thought I'd better go and show I was taking it seriously.He's coming around especially this last year. I'll suggest putting the bales in the field this year see what the reaction is. I bet if not this year then the year after they will be stacked in the field.
- Location
- somerset
used to buy cheap milkers at dispersal sales, and stick calves on them, some old cows, can be the meanest, cussedess creatures out there, and others take straight away. Easiest way i found, small pens, 12ft square, and 4 calves, while she was kicking 1 off, the rest dived in the other side, then once 'on' take so many calves away.
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
What cool-looking calves, like speckle parks that were painted without thinners
glad it worked for you . It doesn't work with every cow or every time, just like giving flowers doesn't work for "every girl", still a good icebreaker though.
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
The best thing about PKE is it's high in copper, must be the munched orang-utans and lumps of metal in it. Be sure to use magnets in your wagon
- Location
- somerset
it's suprising what those magnets pick up.
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
We rediscovered a 16 inch length of chainsaw chain in a load once, it'd be your best cow that ate it
- Location
- somerset
just found out local friend is doing a trial, 30,000 maize, 40,000 bean seeds/acre, son is keen, so our double cropping this year is, hybrid rye + winter vetch, followed by maize and beans, will be interesting to see results, field is good loam, not to dry, and very fertile, having had lots of slurry, and subsoiled last year, removing a very hard pan.A big lesson in following your reasoning. Many years ago, i read an article about growing climbing beans with maize, one crop is energy, the other protien, sounded spot on to me, so over the years i have talked to various 'experts' agrominist etc, who have spent quite a lot of time, carefully explaining why it wouldn't work, and basically talked me out of trying some. So, looking through this weeks farmers weekly, lo and behold, an article about growing beans with maize,
So going back to beans and maize, trials didn't raise protien by much, but complemented each other, and as a legume, N was put back into the ground. Next problem, convincing son, and finding bean seed. Quite angry about it, as i know i should have tried it, it sounded 'right'. Anyway, a trial patch will be done, results, good or bad, i will post.
- Location
- somerset
even better, seed both same size, so 'pre' mixed.Not sure this wil make you feel any betterbut seen this as common practice in sub-saharan Africa, inter-row sowing of beans and maize for human consumption. All done by hand.
In a UK setting, not sure what the drill would look like?
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
I think I've kinda made my grazing chart redundant now 
because I don't know how to enter data anymore: we don't have any named paddocks left.
I forgot to go back and move them last night, but we'll make it up today... they're getting about .22ha per 24hrs, or 22 shifts per ten days.
Cells are 24x41m
Have 29 heifers deemed suitable for export segregated so they're easier to hook into the yard and load out, 6 of them will not be going as the bloods showed IBR so they're in with ours.
This is the piece we wrecked (on purpose) on our last winter grazing and put seed on, not a huge success but you can see plantain and annual ryegrass out of "the patch bag" in amongst the old grass that recovered, it's still quite a poor area but improving from what it was.
..see what I mean about capturing dew?
We've had no real measurable rain for a couple of months now, but the dew keeps things growing, patience is required.
On the plus side the carpet in "the mud room" stays nice and clean when it doesn't rain...
because I don't know how to enter data anymore: we don't have any named paddocks left.
I forgot to go back and move them last night, but we'll make it up today... they're getting about .22ha per 24hrs, or 22 shifts per ten days.
Cells are 24x41m
Have 29 heifers deemed suitable for export segregated so they're easier to hook into the yard and load out, 6 of them will not be going as the bloods showed IBR so they're in with ours.
This is the piece we wrecked (on purpose) on our last winter grazing and put seed on, not a huge success but you can see plantain and annual ryegrass out of "the patch bag" in amongst the old grass that recovered, it's still quite a poor area but improving from what it was.
..see what I mean about capturing dew?
We've had no real measurable rain for a couple of months now, but the dew keeps things growing, patience is required.
On the plus side the carpet in "the mud room" stays nice and clean when it doesn't rain...
- Location
- somerset
you ought to visit the somerset levels, field after field, same size, same gates, yet each farmer knows each field. Used to go out duck flighting down there, you had to be taken out there, and back, otherwise, you wouldn't know where the 'bridges' were, those drains are deep. It was a privilege to do it, basically, you stood in a bit of flood water, in the middle of a field, and wildfowl would mistake you for a tree ! Up to 15,000 wild fowl visited that moor, every night.
One time 400 swans took off together, sounded like a tractor revving up, i think it is some of my closest experiences with nature, alas, can no longer do it.
One time 400 swans took off together, sounded like a tractor revving up, i think it is some of my closest experiences with nature, alas, can no longer do it.
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
We used to go on an annual "hunt" at a place just off the main road by Arthurton, hundreds of white feral geese, very similar to what you describe. The only real rules were
Don't shoot each other
Don't shoot the cars on the highway
Don't break any eggs because we want to come back next year
Now it's all been drained and redrained and yours truly got to plough the rushes under (beside the main road, talk about courage under pressure) and a rabbit would need a bait bag if it doesn't rain in a fortnight. Progress....
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
Relocated our header tank without drama, and it filled overnight through about a 40m length of 20mm polypipe - I think it may have been @bitwrx that calculated that it would... it did
We'll step up to 25mm pipe when we plumb it up properly but I thought I'd better report that it worked, just 25mm may give better flow characteristics for the dosatron to start and stop.
We're using the smallest dosatron
and a massive overkill (32mm) valve in the tank, because I don't like doing half a job.
Also I managed to get hopefully the correct tapping saddles for the job; I had to order in what I wanted from Philmac as your regular 25mm compression fitting would have a 20mm threaded end, meaning restriction and more adaptors to add to the expense, they do make a 25mm compression fitting with a 25mm thread to fit the 40mm tapping saddle though
Ordered them on Thursday after lunch and they landed 10am Friday, now that is good service!
We'll step up to 25mm pipe when we plumb it up properly but I thought I'd better report that it worked, just 25mm may give better flow characteristics for the dosatron to start and stop.
We're using the smallest dosatron
Also I managed to get hopefully the correct tapping saddles for the job; I had to order in what I wanted from Philmac as your regular 25mm compression fitting would have a 20mm threaded end, meaning restriction and more adaptors to add to the expense, they do make a 25mm compression fitting with a 25mm thread to fit the 40mm tapping saddle though
Ordered them on Thursday after lunch and they landed 10am Friday, now that is good service!
Last edited:
- Location
- Derbyshire
Oh the joys of water fittings! You'll still end up with one short or one spareRelocated our header tank without drama, and it filled overnight through about a 40m length of 20mm polypipe - I think it may have been @bitwrx that calculated that it would... it didView attachment 947184
We'll step up to 25mm pipe when we plumb it up properly but I thought I'd better report that it worked, just 25mm may give better flow characteristics for the dosatron to start and stop.
We're using the smallest dosatronView attachment 947188 and a massive overkill (32mm) valve in the tank, because I don't like doing half a job.View attachment 947190View attachment 947191
Also I managed to get hopefully the correct tapping saddles for the job; I had to order in what I wanted from Philmac as your regular 25mm compression fitting would have a 20mm threaded end, meaning restriction and more adaptors to add to the expense, they do make a 25mm compression fitting with a 25mm thread to fit the 40mm tapping saddle though
Ordered them on Thursday after lunch and they landed 10am Friday, now that is good service!
I like the apex filling valve, we have them on our big reservoir tanks
