Blood sucking ahdb

Hindsight · Mar 27, 2021

I am not a levy payer so have no comment to make on the vote. And you quite rightly may well say no right to comment in this thread. But I do dip into and read the research reports provided by levy funded trial work in my daily work.

I struggle with many of the posts in this thread when it comes to applied research. Do posters consider that this research is either not required or could and will be funded / provided by other means - possibly with a commercial interest(?!) So, as an aside to the value to growers of research funded by the levy maybe you might care to take a brief look at the two attached reports.

Recently I have been reading around the subject of nitrogen for potatoes. I wanted to check up on some research data that I knew was available and looked back for Nitrogen trial work conducted under the auspices of AHDB and the fore runner Potato Council. I did this as most of the advice / sales of fertiliser for use on potatoes is for what maybe quite high rates of Nitrogen. And having spoken to a couple of growers they were unaware (or seemed to be) of the research undertaken over the years by organisations supported by the levy. These tended to be younger farm managers / farmers - but older ones seemed unware too.

The gist of these trial series I consider can be condensed into growers may be using more Nitrogen than is appropriate.

I attach a couple of the reports for anyone to take a look at and consider the rigour of said trials format. And the cost of conducting this quality of research.

Regards all. Interesting thread to follow.

White rabbit · Mar 27, 2021

Hindsight said:
I am not a levy payer so have no comment to make on the vote. And you quite rightly may well say no right to comment in this thread. But I do dip into and read the research reports provided by levy funded trial work in my daily work.

I struggle with many of the posts in this thread when it comes to applied research. Do posters consider that this research is either not required or could and will be funded / provided by other means - possibly with a commercial interest(?!) So, as an aside to the value to growers of research funded by the levy maybe you might care to take a brief look at the two attached reports.

Recently I have been reading around the subject of nitrogen for potatoes. I wanted to check up on some research data that I knew was available and looked back for Nitrogen trial work conducted under the auspices of AHDB and the fore runner Potato Council. I did this as most of the advice / sales of fertiliser for use on potatoes is for what maybe quite high rates of Nitrogen. And having spoken to a couple of growers they were unaware (or seemed to be) of the research undertaken over the years by organisations supported by the levy. These tended to be younger farm managers / farmers - but older ones seemed unware too.

The gist of these trial series I consider can be condensed into growers may be using more Nitrogen than is appropriate.

I attach a couple of the reports for anyone to take a look at and consider the rigour of said trials format. And the cost of conducting this quality of research.

Regards all. Interesting thread to follow.

These reports are totally meaningless hindsight, obviously it goes without saying if growers have not had this information why not ,and if they have it must have been viewed as irrelevant or they would not have wanted to see the back of ahdb.

Austin7 · Mar 27, 2021

White rabbit said:
Austin 7 your underlying argument seems to be what will we do when then the ahdb are gone, which after spending .5 of second giving it some thought I suddenly remembered we have managed the last 12 years without them.

White Rabbit, for your information growers have had a body to enable research on their behalf for more than 12 years, actually since 1934.

Austin7 · Mar 27, 2021

White rabbit said:
These reports are totally meaningless hindsight, obviously it goes without saying if growers have not had this information why not ,and if they have it must have been viewed as irrelevant or they would not have wanted to see the back of ahdb.

Without any possible doubt the current AHDB management have totally failed to deliver value to Levy Payers. One area in particular is making easily available the papers reporting in detail on probably more than a hundred man years of research. The two that "Hindsight" has bought to your notice were written by Eric Allen, Marc Allison, David Firman and Mark Stalham. Anybody who has been lucky enough to spend time with any of them will know that we all owe a them debt for their work. I must admit to being shocked that any professional potato grower would consider their work in anyway "irrelevant". White Rabbit you won the ballot , you have the high ground, all you need to do is stand on it. Heaven forbid that those who voted with you started wondering if you knew what you are talking about.

White rabbit · Mar 28, 2021

Austin 7 I have spoken to countless potato growers while we have been doing this campaign, their was virtually no appetite for anything coming out of ahdb, I stopped growing potatoes 5 years ago after 25 years not once in that time did I consult ahdb or did it cross my mind to, all that data from hindsight is ok on a spreadsheet, what really matters is knowing your fields and how different parts of a field can be , there’s no two fields the same ,you spoke about silver scurf well there again the main problem is the soil , fields that are prone to it keep them for chipping, the thing is we can all plough on a blackboard being in the field is a completely different ball game. After all that the top growers in the country did not want this organisation end of, we were almost certain we would win this two ballots because our whistle blower told us it was just as bad trying to get the potato levy in as the horticultural one, you would think that is pretty conclusive evidence of a defunct organisation.

Austin7 · Mar 28, 2021

White rabbit said:
Austin 7 I have spoken to countless potato growers while we have been doing this campaign, their was virtually no appetite for anything coming out of ahdb, I stopped growing potatoes 5 years ago after 25 years not once in that time did I consult ahdb or did it cross my mind to, all that data from hindsight is ok on a spreadsheet, what really matters is knowing your fields and how different parts of a field can be , there’s no two fields the same ,you spoke about silver scurf well there again the main problem is the soil , fields that are prone to it keep them for chipping, the thing is we can all plough on a blackboard being in the field is a completely different ball game. After all that the top growers in the country did not want this organisation end of, we were almost certain we would win this two ballots because our whistle blower told us it was just as bad trying to get the potato levy in as the horticultural one, you would think that is pretty conclusive evidence of a defunct organisation.

In my experience if you stick your head above the parapet you need to make sure you are as credible as you can be. As I have said you are for now a winner. If your win brings fundamental change then I applaud you. However, the fact that you have only ever grown 25 crops and have never consulted on-going research and believe silver scurf is solely a soil born disease is, If I were you, something I would keep quiet about. The rest of us now need to look to the future.

White rabbit · Mar 28, 2021

Austin7 said:
In my experience if you stick your head above the parapet you need to make sure you are as credible as you can be. As I have said you are for now a winner. If your win brings fundamental change then I applaud you. However, the fact that you have only ever grown 25 crops and have never consulted on-going research and believe silver scurf is solely a soil born disease is, If I were you, something I would keep quiet about. The rest of us now need to look to the future.

Austin 7 the fact that I grew 250 acres a year for 25 years must have some credence, you don’t grow potatoes unless you have some idea on what you are doing, because at £2000 an acre growing costs it doesn’t take much of a mathematician to realise that the bank manager might just suggest a change in occupation might be needed if you made many mistakes, I would like to think I was a reasonable grower , when I left school my father grew 2 acres of potatoes on our county council smallholding of 18 acres , we now farm 3,000 acres and some of this is down to having some good years with potatoes so please don’t tell me I don’t know what I am talking about.

Spud · Mar 28, 2021

White rabbit said:
Austin 7 the fact that I grew 250 acres a year for 25 years must have some credence, you don’t grow potatoes unless you have some idea on what you are doing, because at £2000 an acre growing costs it doesn’t take much of a mathematician to realise that the bank manager might just suggest a change in occupation might be needed if you made many mistakes, I would like to think I was a reasonable grower , when I left school my father grew 2 acres of potatoes on our county council smallholding of 18 acres , we now farm 3,000 acres and some of this is down to having some good years with potatoes so please don’t tell me I don’t know what I am talking about.

Why did you stop growing spuds @White rabbit

White rabbit · Mar 28, 2021

Spud said:
Why did you stop growing spuds @White rabbit

The reason I stopped is I am a bit of gambler at heart, When we got to the stage that when I tried to sell all my potatoes free buy all I got from merchants was we still have plenty of contracted ones left, I wasn’t about to put all that I achieved in jeopardy growing for £120 a ton ,you will well know if it is a short year when the price could maybe be £250 they take every last kilo of the contract, when the price is on the floor say £80 the find every reason to reject, it wouldn’t have surprised me if they rejected for the lorry being the wrong colour.

Spud · Mar 28, 2021

White rabbit said:
The reason I stopped is I am a bit of gambler at heart, When we got to the stage that when I tried to sell all my potatoes free buy all I got from merchants was we still have plenty of contracted ones left, I wasn’t about to put all that I achieved in jeopardy growing for £120 a ton ,you will well know if it is a short year when the price could maybe be £250 they take every last kilo of the contract, when the price is on the floor say £80 the find every reason to reject, it wouldn’t have surprised me if they rejected for the lorry being the wrong colour.

So you got greedy, over egged the pudding and lost too much brass to carry on? Plenty done similar.

simon w · Mar 28, 2021

Spud said:
So you got greedy, over egged the pudding and lost too much brass to carry on? Plenty done similar.

I am buying top quality Wilja for our farm shop because we have cleared our own Marfona at £5 a bag delivered. If you can make money at that price you must be a very good grower.

Spud · Mar 28, 2021

simon w said:
I am buying top quality Wilja for our farm shop because we have cleared our own Marfona at £5 a bag delivered. If you can make money at that price you must be a very good grower.

That's significantly above average contract prices for bulk spuds. It's a long time since I was in the bag job, but I'd suggest if the breakeven is over £200/t there's scope for improvement somewhere

White rabbit · Mar 28, 2021

Spud said:
So you got greedy, over egged the pudding and lost too much brass to carry on? Plenty done similar.

Well if you can make it pay at £120 carry on , I like to think I came out before I lost any money but I could see there was very little to be made , I swapped the potatoes for 300 acres of red and white cabbage at least they grow above ground.

White rabbit · Mar 28, 2021

White rabbit said:
Well if you can make it pay at £120 carry on , I like to think I came out before I lost any money but I could see there was very little to be made , I swapped the potatoes for 300 acres of red and white cabbage at least they grow above ground.

White rabbit · Mar 30, 2021

I see we are going to made to pay this coming years levy, well good luck with that , ahdb have been handing out our money to any amount of organisations and companies and signed forward contracts on the assumption that the money would never end, I feel we will have to talk again to all the journalists we have come into contact with over the last two and a half years. We need to highlight to whoever will listen that growers have had a real tough time in the last two seasons , I couldn’t imagine the ahdb will want the general public to know that they are going to sue growers after they have voted to put an end to this awful organisation, one way round this problem would be to ask those who voted yes to pay extra this year (ahdb know who they are ) , I think I will email saphir and tell him.

Austin7 · Mar 30, 2021

White rabbit said:
I see we are going to made to pay this coming years levy, well good luck with that , ahdb have been handing out our money to any amount of organisations and companies and signed forward contracts on the assumption that the money would never end, I feel we will have to talk again to all the journalists we have come into contact with over the last two and a half years. We need to highlight to whoever will listen that growers have had a real tough time in the last two seasons , I couldn’t imagine the ahdb will want the general public to know that they are going to sue growers after they have voted to put an end to this awful organisation, one way round this problem would be to ask those who voted yes to pay extra this year (ahdb know who they are ) , I think I will email saphir and tell him

White Rabbit I don’t think “we” comes into it. Could I remind the followers of this thread that you don’t grow Spuds. Clearly those affected need to find a way forward. I believe that almost all the antagonism to AHDB Potatoes lays at the feet of the current management. The Minister recognises that the Labour 2008 legislation which bought the AHDB conglomeration into being has failed. He has said that he is going to reform this legislation and that changes will be made in the Levy for all sectors. If all the other sectors are offered a new deal then Potatoes should also have that opportunity. Of course, there must be notice taken of the vote that has just happened. The Minister has made clear that he has recognised that the individual cost of the Statutory Levy on Potato Growers was a significant issue in the vote. My view for what it is worth is that the Potatoes sector must continue with an enabling body initially funded by voluntary subscription. I have no time for free riders, without doubt that issue must be addressed. White Rabbit, one thing is for sure, whilst you are not a potato grower, the way forward is none of your business.

Henarar · Mar 30, 2021

Austin7 said:
White Rabbit I don’t think “we” comes into it. Could I remind the followers of this thread that you don’t grow Spuds. Clearly those affected need to find a way forward. I believe that almost all the antagonism to AHDB Potatoes lays at the feet of the current management. The Minister recognises that the Labour 2008 legislation which bought the AHDB conglomeration into being has failed. He has said that he is going to reform this legislation and that changes will be made in the Levy for all sectors. If all the other sectors are offered a new deal then Potatoes should also have that opportunity. Of course, there must be notice taken of the vote that has just happened. The Minister has made clear that he has recognised that the individual cost of the Statutory Levy on Potato Growers was a significant issue in the vote. My view for what it is worth is that the Potatoes sector must continue with an enabling body initially funded by voluntary subscription. I have no time for free riders, without doubt that issue must be addressed. White Rabbit, one thing is for sure, whilst you are not a potato grower, the way forward is none of your business.

I took it he was talking about the horti sector when he said "we" , is it just potato growers that are going to be made to pay again ?

Austin7 · Mar 30, 2021

Henarar said:
I took it he was talking about the horti sector when he said "we" , is it just potato growers that are going to be made to pay again ?

White Rabbit was addressing Spud who I would guess is a Potato Grower. Hort is a different issue. I know nothing therefore I make no comment. All White Rabbits responses to me have been openly and only referencing Potatoes. I patiently waited for him to tell us that he does not grow potatoes, it was a long time coming. Hopefully Potato Growers can now discuss the future in peace and quiet, no more squealing Rabbits.

simon w · Mar 30, 2021

Austin7 said:
White Rabbit I don’t think “we” comes into it. Could I remind the followers of this thread that you don’t grow Spuds. Clearly those affected need to find a way forward. I believe that almost all the antagonism to AHDB Potatoes lays at the feet of the current management. The Minister recognises that the Labour 2008 legislation which bought the AHDB conglomeration into being has failed. He has said that he is going to reform this legislation and that changes will be made in the Levy for all sectors. If all the other sectors are offered a new deal then Potatoes should also have that opportunity. Of course, there must be notice taken of the vote that has just happened. The Minister has made clear that he has recognised that the individual cost of the Statutory Levy on Potato Growers was a significant issue in the vote. My view for what it is worth is that the Potatoes sector must continue with an enabling body initially funded by voluntary subscription. I have no time for free riders, without doubt that issue must be addressed. White Rabbit, one thing is for sure, whilst you are not a potato grower, the way forward is none of your business.

Austin7you should have voted yes to the ballot, those of us that voted no mean just that. A yes vote means change according to Saphir. No means the end of ahdb potatoes and horticulture and that's what we voted for. Also I think it is White raddits business as he and other growers started this campaign and a large majority have shown their support.

Henarar · Mar 30, 2021

Austin7 said:
White Rabbit was addressing Spud who I would guess is a Potato Grower. Hort is a different issue. I know nothing therefore I make no comment. All White Rabbits responses to me have been openly and only referencing Potatoes. I patiently waited for him to tell us that he does not grow potatoes, it was a long time coming. Hopefully Potato Growers can now discuss the future in peace and quiet, no more squealing Rabbits.

He didn't mention potato growers in the post you quoted

Blood sucking ahdb

Member

Attachments

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

0 %

Up to 25%

25-50%

50-75%

75-100%

100% I’ve had enough of farming!

Share this page