Rouge or Charollais
- Thread starter Oneman37
- Start date
M-J-G
Member
When we used to have bluegrey cows they were around 550 and never went over 600kg.
We put them to a big Sim or Char and the progeny easily went to 700kg some of the weanlings were close to mothers weight by 9 months.
The heifers however would into cows that had a much greater mature size than their mothers.
I'm amazed at a cattle man being surprised at what commonly occurred for decades.
No they weren't. Charolais cross calves out of the best Bluegrey cows never ever got near to 550kg at 9 months. Not even the hairiest heavy-gutted types. And not even those from farmers whose calendar had a 6-month delay.
M-J-G
Member
What would the be the point in registering a calf late, I'm not a Lim breeder.
Plenty were in the 400s which in my book I would class within 100kg of dam weight as being close to their mothers weight when the cows were leaned down, unless you can think of closer? If so I'd be keen to hear examples.
Plenty of those cows were closer to 500kg than 550.
That's only 1.4 ro 1.5kg, not that difficult with a growthy sire on a cow with milk.
But weaning weight was not the original point that you missed, we were talking about slaughter weight compared to mature weight and the difference between those in cattle and sheep a working 550kg cow fattened would be 600kg
That cow put to a growthy Char or Sim, breeds which can have fattened females at 800 plus Kg, making the fattened average at 700kg, which is not exactly a phenomenon.
We kept Simmental daughters off BG cows and they had mature weights of 700kg and beyond, which were too heavy for cows.
A cow produces 700kg progeny which is why I see the pont in keeping a cow closer to slaughter weight.
A ewe produces 45kg progeny, so I don't see the point in keeping a ewe that's double that, and with some of the donkey type Suff/Mules they will be closer to 3x slaughter weight, utter madness IMO.
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What did you think of the cow and calf I posted above?
Impressed or what?????? Not as good as your old bluegrey coos?
M-J-G
Member
Blue grey cows won't produce a calf with that shape (assuming it's hers) although I've not had a BG in at least 15 years
Impressed, how could I be, anyone with a clue about cattle would know that without knowing how regularly she's bred, her ability to wean a heavy calf in poor conditions and her overall functionality it's impossible to be impressed, plenty of good looking people are useless. For all I know she's not had a calf for 2 years since, and that would hardly be impressive now would it.
She's nothing I've not seen before,
Greenmount college NI had a herd like that and they found them breeding themselves into a tighter corner within a closed herd with more shape and less milk.
But for a terminal calf it ticks a lot of boxes so credit where it's due well done for breeding a calf for the hook, but I see no route for that type of calf in a closed herd and his sisters are just terminal heifers which I don't want.
If I wanted cattle like that I'd have them, they are in fat rings around the country every day of the week.
But buying that type out of the fat ring would make for very expensive bulling heifers - £1500 upwards??? And they are only sold in ones.
I'm still not sure you're a proper farmer. Maybe you have a toy farmyard, and if so, do you know that little balls of cotton wool can be used in an emergency to make authentic-looking sheep.
M-J-G
Member
1500
I could sell a premium bulling heifers and buy fat heifers like that and have change left over.
- Location
- Derbyshire
Very nice looking. People love cattle like these.
What is the fascination with arses though? People love them in marts and yet the processors make their money from high value meat in the loin and 5th quarter... so why these massive arses? and why do live auctions pay so much for them? I would be concerned about breeding arse at the expense of length/breadth of loin. I always find it difficult to judge length without seeing a bunch of animals the same age/management so I guess it can be subjective.
M-J-G
Member
Arse at the expense of the loin is regularly what happens, I recall being at a multi breed sale and sitting above where the cattle came into the ring and thinking how the big arsed breeds and individuals regularly had a poor breadth of loin.
I prefer Sirloin to silverside, but some others must not.
sheepwise
Member
- Location
- SW Scotland
M-J-G
Member
Roussin lambs at around 9 weeks, left is a gimmer's and the right is a hoggs lamb, in fairness both are singles, both were over 30kg a couple of weeks back.
Forgive the colour scheme, I'm working on it!
- Location
- central scotland
- Location
- Mendips Somerset
whats milk yield of hamp normally ? are they fairly milky , ch x zw have made some great v easy lambing ewes here but milk has always been limiting factor with ch ,
- Location
- central scotland
@andybk I presume there is huge variation within the charollais breed regarding milk..... we seem to have a couple of pretty milky ewes and we had one that was very poor ( now gone) guess it’s just a learning curve but we’re not that keen on playing the whole embryo game, hope to be able to have a few pure ewes that can do a reasonable job of their own lambs 
- Location
- Mendips Somerset
yes huge variation , problem is uk ET covering the fact (so 8 week weights look good ) , and use of very terminal embryos filtering down through breed , (because they look good) was a main driver of going back to france for ewe genetics (they record milk and prolificacy on similar system to ram compare over many 00s of commercial ewes ) dont get me wrong some are as bad there except they get a RDT classification as lambs (terminal only) , so very good meat qualities , crap mothers . very high genetic ai rams are split into two groups ambo (meat) amcr (female traits ) a few make both lists, ambo+ but there are very few only half a dozen in last 20 years that i know of , just another tool to use .@andybk I presume there is huge variation within the charollais breed regarding milk..... we seem to have a couple of pretty milky ewes and we had one that was very poor ( now gone) guess it’s just a learning curve but we’re not that keen on playing the whole embryo game, hope to be able to have a few pure ewes that can do a reasonable job of their own lambs
M-J-G
Member
I'd class a Hampshire the same as a Hereford cow for milking ability, good ones are fine but lesser ones can be terrible. On the whole they are OK.
Hamp X Zw are good enough ewes even if they are a bit unconventional, 190% scan (hoggs 150 to 160) and feet are fine. I class them like a texel mule but with less mastitis, they do end up quite big which is why I've lambed them as hoggs I recent years and am looking at Roussin and Lleyn in an attempt to breed a more moderate sized ewe.
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It's easy to get exceptional growth rates in lambs, as long as you don't make the mistake of weighing them.
And if you do actually weigh them, never make the mistake of taring the scales at zero.
Why is it that folk who have a menagerie of breeds, and keep swapping from one breed to another, always seem to have very high performance figures?- even though they are lame and shitty arsed - and their sheep are often not much better.
- Location
- Mendips Somerset
That was my fathers idea regard importing zwartbles to make a mule type ewe that could be used in the uplands , so adding a bit more , prolificacy , milk etc a better hardiness than BFL , then put back to texel / char / belt for finished lambs rather than selling store , that zw milk and easy lambing for a texel structure lamb could propel a dam good finished lamb with some shape quite quickly . The issue is the hobby farmers in the breed these days