Construction industry losing red diesel

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
Like it, Farm say 1 to 1000 ac 100% of claimable rebate, 1001 to 2000 ac 1/2 the claimable %, 2001 ac upwards no rebate, slow up one or two of these land grabbers.

fair way would be per ac / combinable per /ac veg and per head of stock - regardless of scale …… thats just the politics of jealousy which is an ugly thing

i would make it pretty tight however to discourage a lot of the wasteful use we currently see
 

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
So I could just say I’ve done 2 cuts of grass instead of one and run my pickup for the year on the extra amount I’m aloud ?

Very easy to be fraudulent with that logic

not really - i think it would be pretty easy to spot anyone using more than average

you can be fraudulent with your VAT claim if you like ……… as long as you like porridge !
 

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
Yes, it makes no difference to me whether it uses red, or kero. I use both here anyway. The fact remains though, it has to be one or the other.
The OP states that red may be banned for construction and highway maintenance. This thread has turned into an evangelical rant against the use of red for all agricultural activities.
I can't understand why some on here seek to impose their agricultural ways on the rest of the industry.
I don't post over and over again that everyone should farm using elderly blue tractors........
Very strange.

i don’t think anyone really gives a dam how anyone else farms, doesn’t mean they shouldn’t share how they do with interested others however, its what forums are about - “knowledge exchange”


From a more personal point of view I see other farmers as competitors, their inefficiency is my gain !

also on a personal point of view - i care a lot about the environment and don’t want to see it being damaged unnecessarily
 
not really - i think it would be pretty easy to spot anyone using more than average

you can be fraudulent with your VAT claim if you like ……… as long as you like porridge !
How could it be easy to spot I could take one big cut of grass or 3 3x the fuel :rolleyes: :ROFLMAO:
Plus how does that work with contracting I spend all summer doing work for local farms with our own diesel
 

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
How could it be easy to spot I could take one big cut of grass or 3 3x the fuel :rolleyes: :ROFLMAO:

a farm could have a max rebate per ac / head of stock that could compare to other similar businesses

its all quite possible - but like VAT im sure you could try defraud it if that way inclined ……. personally I don’t fancy prison however

you could run your pickup on red today if you have no respect for the law so what’s the difference?
 

Two Tone

Member
Mixed Farmer
anyone using red for drying grain is already wasting a lot of money btw - Kero or heating oil is way cheaper than red !
Depends a bit on how much drying we need to do. Mobile dryers set to run on Red, would need re jetting and a separate tank to run on 28 second Heating Oil.
Whether or not we could get away with a tank full of Ultra 35 and use this with the tractors as well might work, I don’t know.

Also however, 28 second heating oil does not have the same calorific value/cc as 35 second Red Gas oil.
It burns quicker (hence the value in seconds to burn 1cc), therefore you will use more of it.
Only the fact that Heating oil is cheaper/litre than Red or Ultra 35 might possibly make it cheaper to use, providing you have an extra tank in the first place.
For most, it simply wouldn’t be worth it.
 
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a farm could have a max rebate per ac / head of stock that could compare to other similar businesses

its all quite possible - but like VAT im sure yiu could try defraud it if that way inclined ……. personally I don’t fancy prison however
So I’d have to keep a record of every litre used at each farm and claim back of them ??
 

Ribble

Member
Thing is, our economy is based on a) house price rises and b) besncounters, legal parasites and assorted spivs.

Build houses to satisfy demand, and simplify tax structures and suddenly the harsh reality shows up IE that we essentially just do nothing.b

Very well said. If you take out unproductive things currently counted as GDP such as debt interest (apparently it's a service) , the UK economy goes from 6th largest to 22nd.
 

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
Cannot understand this clamour for scraping of red and claiming a rebate.

It’s like VAT. A cost that has to be born on the OD (for which there is a charge) before the rebate is claimed back.

Nothing wrong with the current system

easier to administer for government, less scope for fraudulent use and a positive encouragement to minimise fuel use

maybe not popular with farmers but the kind of thing tax payers demand

i suspect it will happen eventually
 

Brisel

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Midlands
Yes, it makes no difference to me whether it uses red, or kero. I use both here anyway. The fact remains though, it has to be one or the other.
The OP states that red may be banned for construction and highway maintenance. This thread has turned into an evangelical rant against the use of red for all agricultural activities.
I can't understand why some on here seek to impose their agricultural ways on the rest of the industry.
I don't post over and over again that everyone should farm using elderly blue tractors........
Very strange.

That's just how the thread has evolved. The use of red in agriculture IS under review. I wasn't having a go at you.
 

Ribble

Member
easier to administer for government, less scope for fraudulent use

Rebate taxes surely provide more scope for fraud? The Export VAT merry-go-round was being pillaged for 30 years before they finally paid attention, from Richard Branson exporting fictional shipments of vinyl records in the 70s, all the way through until the early 2000s when the government finally paid attention because Asians started going too far claiming £50m rebates on imaginary containers of mobile phones.

One of the largest tax frauds in American history was the Russian mob fiddling with sales tax on fuel distribution.
 

homefarm

Member
Location
N.West
I think this rebate debate is pointless, we will not be getting one, we will have to change to use less energy even if that means not producing.
Everyone has to think green and clean.
 
Location
southwest
Seems to be lots of confusion here.

Red is for Agriculture and off road use. Farming will still use red. Construction plant used exclusively on site (or to travel between sites) will still use Red. I expect that the only change for Construction will be that road cleaners will use white.

Everyone else using Red because they are "off road" will continue to do so.

It's Customs & Excise that enforce the rules because it's a fuel duty offence to use Red on the Highway. They have no right (or desire) to check what you're using in your grain drier or beat up old pick up that you just use on the farm to do a bit of fencing or check the young stock.

PS When I worked for a Local Authority, we used Red in the tractors that travelled about the City to cut grass on sports pitches, trim roadside hedges etc. but I have seen reports of farmers being fined for using Red when topping the village football pitch.
 

7610 super q

Never Forgotten
Honorary Member
So will that mean farmers can no longer offer winter maintenance eg snow ploughing ?
If the rates are viable, then they'll be willing to do it. We've not had any snow worth shifting off the roads in this neck of the woods since 1982. Back in those days I'd imagine you could push an abandoned car off the road. In these times of claim culture I think it best not to get involved in this type of work at all................
 

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

  • 0 %

    Votes: 79 42.0%
  • Up to 25%

    Votes: 66 35.1%
  • 25-50%

    Votes: 30 16.0%
  • 50-75%

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 75-100%

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 100% I’ve had enough of farming!

    Votes: 7 3.7%

Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

  • 1,290
  • 1
As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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