Broadcasting Cover crops into standing crops

ajd132 · Apr 29, 2020

I have access to a 36m rauch pneumatic spreader. I want to make the most of some catch crops before wheat drilling so was thinking of broadcasting some seed into the standing crops of oats, wheat and barley before rains are forecast.
I was thinking of using buckwheat, linseed and some phacelia. Happy to change this but I do not want brassicas.
Any thoughts welcome

jack6480 · Apr 29, 2020

I am planning to do this, hoping to make my terra cast 12m on booms and go in with cover crops and rape

Brisel · Apr 29, 2020

I've done this for the last 3 years with a local's KuhnAGT 36m. I've done turnip seed or a mix of vetch, phacelia, buckwheat and berseem clover. Vetch needs darkness to germinate. Clover doesn't do that well. Linseed, phacelia and buckwheat grow well. I only did the turnips this way once as for the last 2 years we were in a hot dry spell and no rain in the forecast so I chose to DD the turnips soon afterwards which worked better.

The best time to do it is just before the combine goes in. Better still is to chop the straw though a longer stubble is preferable to a thick mat of straw.

Done 2-3 weeks ahead results in a much lower establishment rate than 1-5 days before. I'm not quite sure why - maybe some chits & dies or there is unnoticed slug activity. Doing this in spring barley has had a much lower establishment rate, for reasons unknown. Allelopathy? There's a reason Autocasting fell out of fashion - it is quite patchy but if you're a grey partridge gamekeeper, they love it that way as it's not a thick jungle that would be better for your underground livestock.

Chalky · Apr 29, 2020

This is how I plan to get spring sown wheats to give a timely August OSR sowing window. 10-15 kg/ha cleaned conventional seed through our contractors 32m avadex spreader on a bateman.

Flea beetle central we are not(yet)- but anecdotally well grown(early sown) crops up this end of Lincs fared so much better than anything sown september(when I expect to cut my feb & march sown wheats), Very little ventured, if a write off, then only a few quid of seed & an application bill. Better than a load of metal, fert spray and seed to potentially fight a battle I may not win.

ajd132 · Apr 29, 2020

Brisel said:
I've done this for the last 3 years with a local's KuhnAGT 36m. I've done turnip seed or a mix of vetch, phacelia, buckwheat and berseem clover. Vetch needs darkness to germinate. Clover doesn't do that well. Linseed, phacelia and buckwheat grow well. I only did the turnips this way once as for the last 2 years we were in a hot dry spell and no rain in the forecast so I chose to DD the turnips soon afterwards which worked better.

The best time to do it is just before the combine goes in. Better still is to chop the straw though a longer stubble is preferable to a thick mat of straw.

Done 2-3 weeks ahead results in a much lower establishment rate than 1-5 days before. I'm not quite sure why - maybe some chits & dies or there is unnoticed slug activity. Doing this in spring barley has had a much lower establishment rate, for reasons unknown. Allelopathy? There's a reason Autocasting fell out of fashion - it is quite patchy but if you're a grey partridge gamekeeper, they love it that way as it's not a thick jungle that would be better for your underground livestock.

I was really hoping to do it a few weeks before combining. But co-Incode it with rain?

sahara · Apr 29, 2020

If it is planted this early and germinates well and then grows to become a meaningful cover crop, would you not then potentially have a harvesting problem?

With say Barley, if it brackles over the head would now be in amongst the moist green cover crop, adding to your moisture content and then needing to be dried out.

Down here in soggy Somerset I would be worried that in a wet harvest year as the cereal crop died off and the canopy opened up or the crop lodged, the cover crop below would grow up through it and generally cause chaos.

I am interested, not criticizing!

HarryB97 · Apr 29, 2020

Used to do it where I worked every year with stubble turnips 2-3 weeks pre harvest. It generaly worked really well and the turnips were well over twice the size of other peoples we grazed who established them after harvest. Even in a wet year when the turnips had germinated and the straw was turned, then bailed and then driven over with a loader collecting the bales you coudln't see any lines in the crop from tyre damage. We could spin turnips 24 metres with a fert spinner fine but when they moved to 30 metre tramlines you were always left with a bare strip.

Pilatus · Apr 29, 2020

I can understand the merits/economics of cover crops the way you are all establishing them, as no expensive metal, diesel and labour costs incurred.Brilliant even if a bit hit and miss establishment

I cant believe catch cropping is cost effective if one is burning diesel,wearing metal, and paying overtime labour costs to establish them,no doubt some will beg to differ.

Brisel · Apr 29, 2020

ajd132 said:
I was really hoping to do it a few weeks before combining. But co-Incode it with rain?

That would help IMO

Zan · Apr 30, 2020

I’m going to try this year doing this, got a techneat outcast on the sprayer so will only be able to use small seeds however.
How soon dare you go not to cause a harvest issue? And what to put in for catch crops?
Cover crops I’ve been doing for a while direct drilling in late august after harvest with a phacillia and oat or rye mixes. Agronomist is suggesting a radish, would radish and linseed work?

Pilatus · Apr 30, 2020

HarryB97 said:
Used to do it where I worked every year with stubble turnips 2-3 weeks pre harvest. It generaly worked really well and the turnips were well over twice the size of other peoples we grazed who established them after harvest. Even in a wet year when the turnips had germinated and the straw was turned, then bailed and then driven over with a loader collecting the bales you coudln't see any lines in the crop from tyre damage. We could spin turnips 24 metres with a fert spinner fine but when they moved to 30 metre tramlines you were always left with a bare strip.

Slugs, Slugs,Slugs are the main enemy you have to fight. Someone I work part time for has broadcast stubble turnips for years and so Ihave seen what cursed slugs do

4course · Apr 30, 2020

MX7 said:
I can understand the merits/economics of cover crops the way you are all establishing them, as no expensive metal, diesel and labour costs incurred.Brilliant even if a bit hit and miss establishment
I cant believe catch cropping is cost effective if one is burning diesel,wearing metal, and paying overtime labour costs to establish them,no doubt some will beg to differ.

this year looking at our crops of wheat est after a catch crop and the ones sown without . The ones following a catch crop are much better even to the point of there being a crop as against none, there is of course the post sowing weather to allow for but other years weve seen a benefit of following a catch crop traditionally established ,im also of the view that had we had more catch crops in we would have had more wheat in the ground now.my mistake was sowing the catch cropped land before some bare stubbles

Brisel · Apr 30, 2020

Broadcasting slug pellets into a standing crop is highly illegal and all hell would break loose if one ended up in the grain sample sent to a mill.

The highest risk would be where the ears are still vertical and were damp enough for the seed to stick. Lower risk would be when crops were riper, drier and done in a breeze so nothing lodged in the ears.

Brisel · Apr 30, 2020

Zan said:
I’m going to try this year doing this, got a techneat outcast on the sprayer so will only be able to use small seeds however.
How soon dare you go not to cause a harvest issue? And what to put in for catch crops?
Cover crops I’ve been doing for a while direct drilling in late august after harvest with a phacillia and oat or rye mixes. Agronomist is suggesting a radish, would radish and linseed work?

The gamekeepers here chuck mustard into the standing crop in late July. If a wet summer means a month before harvesting then mustard can grow up through the wheat but it has never caused many issues for us. You'd be leaving a long stubble anyway. They are keen to do it sooner but the damn stuff is bolting to seed in October & poking through the canopy by mid August. I can't help with species as that's down to you but be aware that most brassicas are very tasty to slugs & if the wheat crop is after osr is pretty high, especially for direct drillers. I wouldn't choose a brassica as I have enough of them in the rotation already with the exception of turnips for sheep grazing (and partridge habitat).

jack6480 · Apr 30, 2020

Brisel said:
Broadcasting slug pellets into a standing crop is highly illegal and all hell would break loose if one ended up in the grain sample sent to a mill.

The highest risk would be where the ears are still vertical and were damp enough for the seed to stick. Lower risk would be when crops were riper, drier and done in a breeze so nothing lodged in the ears.

That was funny advice, you made it sound like it was highly illegal but maybe if the ears are down have a go

Brisel · Apr 30, 2020

jack6480 said:
That was funny advice, you made it sound like it was highly illegal but maybe if the ears are down have a go

It is highly illegal. Just saying how you'd minimise the risk of seed sticking to the ears

Zan · Apr 30, 2020

Brisel said:
The gamekeepers here chuck mustard into the standing crop in late July. If a wet summer means a month before harvesting then mustard can grow up through the wheat but it has never caused many issues for us. You'd be leaving a long stubble anyway. They are keen to do it sooner but the damn stuff is bolting to seed in October & poking through the canopy by mid August. I can't help with species as that's down to you but be aware that most brassicas are very tasty to slugs & if the wheat crop is after osr is pretty high, especially for direct drillers. I wouldn't choose a brassica as I have enough of them in the rotation already with the exception of turnips for sheep grazing (and partridge habitat).

I’ve heard a couple of people say that radish isn’t the same as other brassicas? Doesn’t have the club root issues nor the slugs.
trial and error I guess but I’m skeptical of any brassica with “attempting” OSR crops in the rotation.

I’m also going to try the same with spreading the OSR into standing wheat, try and get it outrageously big by the end of September and then run some sheep on it mid October......I may end up with egg on my face but got nothing to loose with the current situation on rape!

richheady · May 20, 2021

Hi, I was wondering how you all got on last year with your cover/catch crop broadcasting? any lessons learned/advice? @ajd132 @jack6480 @Brisel @Chalky @Zan @MX7 @4course

We broadcast a few fields of turnips into standing wheat, but post harvest it still hadn't rained so we ended up running the vaderstad rapid over it, disking in the turnips and adding some oats (which I am glad we did as the slugs took out some areas of the turnips). I am hoping to broadcast more before harvest this summer as without the drilling costs I can pretty much double my seed spend and still be quids in.

I might try boradcasting home saved OSR with berseem clover and buckwheat and treating it as a cover crop and then making the decision in the spring weather to keep it as OSR or drill it into a spring crop.

Zan · May 20, 2021

richheady said:
Hi, I was wondering how you all got on last year with your cover/catch crop broadcasting? any lessons learned/advice? @ajd132 @jack6480 @Brisel @Chalky @Zan @MX7 @4course

We broadcast a few fields of turnips into standing wheat, but post harvest it still hadn't rained so we ended up running the vaderstad rapid over it, disking in the turnips and adding some oats (which I am glad we did as the slugs took out some areas of the turnips). I am hoping to broadcast more before harvest this summer as without the drilling costs I can pretty much double my seed spend and still be quids in.

I might try boradcasting home saved OSR with berseem clover and buckwheat and treating it as a cover crop and then making the decision in the spring weather to keep it as OSR or drill it into a spring crop.

i spread some catch crops in as a trial, that went well, establishment not as good as the drilled area, however it was 2-3 weeks ahead of the drilled area because it was into standing peas so turned out a better cover by late September, where as the drilled area was still very small.

I also did two blocks of OSR, one we wrote off early (we think the slugs took it so we’re thinking of running through with slug pellets the before ear emerges to keep the population down)
The second block we ran with and it doesn’t look bad, there are some bare patches across bits of it but considering it’s wet land and the winter it had we are fairly happy.
The techneat outcast is to be modified slightly by techneat as the seed is tending to put a higher rate to the middle spinner (of the 3) rather than the two outside spinners.

Broadcasting Cover crops into standing crops

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