Low input sheep trials NZ ,

Jimdog1

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Devon
The stat on pneumonia is interesting. I wonder if any work has been done in the u.k. on this? 30-40% with lesions. Does the use of a vaccine mitigate this?
 
The two traits of greatest importance to improve are;
  • large decrease in FEC (which is resistance to worms) as this has serious affect on all traits to do with economic performance.
  • reduce/eliminate dagginess as this increases flystrike risk and greatly increases labour costs and carcass grading due to contamination. The most off-putting trait to farmers.
Whether sheep are wool growing or not, all sheep have resistance and dagginess genes independent on what skin fibre follicles produce. However the woollier and longer the tails are the more the proverbial sticks.

To date no breed is the clear winner, however some breeders have rams that feature highly across some of the main desired traits. No one ram has bred progeny superior for everything measured. So it all comes down to the breeders who have made the most progress over previous generations. This doesn't happen by accident, luck or chasing a fashionable appearance quirk, but by having set goals and having bona fide data to sort out the trait leaders.

As a former researcher turned breeder, I think this work may be the most important catalyst to future proofing the sheep industry.
 

Frank-the-Wool

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
East Sussex
Those of us with Romneys have of course been practising low input for many years but this trial is extremely interesting. I am slightly puzzled as to why Lucerne pellets are being used apart from the fact that it is a measurable input as against grass alone. It would be much higher in protein than grass though and grazing Lucerne we find tends to increase growth rates of lambs significantly but slows the laying down of fat and finishing.
The lung lesions are extremely interesting, but is this caused by lungworm or other environmental reasons. The Moredun foundation have perfected a scanning system for OPA and I wonder if this could be used to detect lesions?

I am sure that dags can be reduced by breeding and even in our long woolled sheep it is seldom an issue but getting sheep struck by maggots is usually an environmental cause than being sh*tty. We have flocks in different areas and those on the open marshes are far less likely to get struck than where there are trees and valleys. When they get struck on the marsh it is far more likely it will be on the shoulder or back and we believe it is where birds (starlings) sit on them and crap.

The most significant worm issues which causes scouring with us are firstly Nematodirus and secondly for a short time Tapeworm. Nemo is the one where I believe we can all get caught out as weather conditions have changed the predictability and timing of when it occurs. Finding genetic resistance to this would be a significant game changer.
 

sheepdogtrail

Member
Livestock Farmer
The most significant worm issues which causes scouring with us are firstly Nematodirus and secondly for a short time Tapeworm. Nemo is the one where I believe we can all get caught out as weather conditions have changed the predictability and timing of when it occurs. Finding genetic resistance to this would be a significant game changer.

I would hope that this is possible. But, the practical side of me says that already with high levels of resilience in most breeds of sheep for those two species it will be difficult. But not impossible.

Science is my friend.

In the short term, I think managed grazing on specific cultivars would be a easier target to hit. I have been doing this for over a decade now on my organic animals with fantastic results. After all, it is possible with modern forage genetics to have sheep take the best parts of the plants higher up the stem of the plant and move on to the next plant. The idea is that the space below the most palatable parts of the plant all the way to the ground is too far for parasites to travel without risking desiccation and thus death. Make the ground too leaf bridge a death march for the parasite. Parasites are really good at adapting. So I would suspect some transformations to take place. I would hope that we humans and the management of our hoist species could stay one step ahead through our own evolution fueled by science.
 

Frank-the-Wool

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
East Sussex
I would hope that this is possible. But, the practical side of me says that already with high levels of resilience in most breeds of sheep for those two species it will be difficult. But not impossible.

Science is my friend.

In the short term, I think managed grazing on specific cultivars would be a easier target to hit. I have been doing this for over a decade now on my organic animals with fantastic results. After all, it is possible with modern forage genetics to have sheep take the best parts of the plants higher up the stem of the plant and move on to the next plant. The idea is that the space below the most palatable parts of the plant all the way to the ground is too far for parasites to travel without risking desiccation and thus death. Make the ground too leaf bridge a death march for the parasite. Parasites are really good at adapting. So I would suspect some transformations to take place. I would hope that we humans and the management of our hoist species could stay one step ahead through our own evolution fueled by science.

Interesting that our sheep have to wait until next morning for the grass to grow overnight to get a full belly, so in theory they have always ingested loads of worm eggs. However because they are eating high levels of Clover and if you graze sheep on Lucerne or Clover they always improve as if they are on rocket fuel. Possibly these high protein feeds act as natural wormers or the feed value is so high any worm burden has less effect?
 

easyram1

Member
Location
North Shropshire
Low input sheep trials NZ , similar to @Tim W , , genetics for low input high output look interesting long term



High Country Romneys have been using genetics from the host farmer of this trial since 2018. We are importing 3 rams from one of the larger participants in this scheme. These rams come with EBVs for FEC, BCS, Methane and CO2 emissions as well as all the normal maternal traits.
 

primmiemoo

Member
Location
Devon
Interesting that our sheep have to wait until next morning for the grass to grow overnight to get a full belly, so in theory they have always ingested loads of worm eggs. However because they are eating high levels of Clover and if you graze sheep on Lucerne or Clover they always improve as if they are on rocket fuel. Possibly these high protein feeds act as natural wormers or the feed value is so high any worm burden has less effect?

When there's a good crop of birdsfoot trefoil in the old pastures, we run the weaned lambs through to graze it in part of a day. It's pretty much as good as a dose of wormer, and they also gain from the different sort of legume to their usual white clover.

We think it's tanins in that trefoil that are anthelmintic, but they also have access to the old, native flowers, rougher grass, etc, and some different browse. It's probably a happy mixture in the diet. A sort of version of the "hospital fields", maybe?
 

andybk

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Mendips Somerset
I would hope that this is possible. But, the practical side of me says that already with high levels of resilience in most breeds of sheep for those two species it will be difficult. But not impossible.

Science is my friend.

In the short term, I think managed grazing on specific cultivars would be a easier target to hit. I have been doing this for over a decade now on my organic animals with fantastic results. After all, it is possible with modern forage genetics to have sheep take the best parts of the plants higher up the stem of the plant and move on to the next plant. The idea is that the space below the most palatable parts of the plant all the way to the ground is too far for parasites to travel without risking desiccation and thus death. Make the ground too leaf bridge a death march for the parasite. Parasites are really good at adapting. So I would suspect some transformations to take place. I would hope that we humans and the management of our hoist species could stay one step ahead through our own evolution fueled by science.
Whilst i agree with your points , the fact uk is going very environmental over the next round of gov assistance means they are looking at diverse plant species in pasture , by doing what you advocate above many of the less competitive species will die out , you also need a decent mob to trample whats left , I do graze some enviro plots and difficulty is stocking at right rate to manage it through the year .
 
Those of us with Romneys have of course been practising low input for many years but this trial is extremely interesting. I am slightly puzzled as to why Lucerne pellets are being used apart from the fact that it is a measurable input as against grass alone. It would be much higher in protein than grass though and grazing Lucerne we find tends to increase growth rates of lambs significantly but slows the laying down of fat and finishing.
The lung lesions are extremely interesting, but is this caused by lungworm or other environmental reasons. The Moredun foundation have perfected a scanning system for OPA and I wonder if this could be used to detect lesions?

I am sure that dags can be reduced by breeding and even in our long woolled sheep it is seldom an issue but getting sheep struck by maggots is usually an environmental cause than being sh*tty. We have flocks in different areas and those on the open marshes are far less likely to get struck than where there are trees and valleys. When they get struck on the marsh it is far more likely it will be on the shoulder or back and we believe it is where birds (starlings) sit on them and crap.

The most significant worm issues which causes scouring with us are firstly Nematodirus and secondly for a short time Tapeworm. Nemo is the one where I believe we can all get caught out as weather conditions have changed the predictability and timing of when it occurs. Finding genetic resistance to this would be a significant game changer.


The lucerne pellets are only used while they are off pasture to the electronically equipped lambs to measure how much and how often they eat so measurements to determine efficiency of feed to Lwt. gain. Dried grass pellets have been used in past trials at Invermay Ag. Res. Centre, but lucerne pellets are commercially available. Protein % does not affect the range of response for feed conversion efficiency.
Lungworm is of minor incidence in NZ. However Pneumonia Syndrome (caused by associated pathogens) is extremely common affecting almost all flocks throughout NZ. This problem starts after some lung challenge occurs eg. climatic in the far north, or from increased ammonia present in covered yards essential in the deep south.

The science to determine dagginess is conclusive with heritabilities determined and used by leading breeders for over a decade now. In NZ dagginess is the major cause of flystrike. The historical drive to maintain a fleece that breathes (dries quickly) by having selection pressure on fleece colour, low suint, highly charactered (crimp and staple definition i.e. freedom of cross fibres) keeps body strike to low levels.

The science of breeding for Resistance to Worms is long known. I have written about this numerous times on this forum. Huge gains can be made over a handful of sheep generation intervals. To reiterate; in 15 years, following a sire ranking to determine the range of FEC in progeny in 1989, we genetically lowered Adult FEC by 66%, Post Weaning Lamb FEC by 42%, permitting me AND MY RAM CLIENTS to only drench lambs once or twice in their lifetime, i.e. no further drenches required even if seasonal conditions caused a spike in FEC, the sheep soon got on top of the infection and naturally reduced the worm burden. Over these years we still maintained our historical rates of gain in the productive traits (growth and No. of Lambs born and Survival) as they are almost independent of FEC (a very small negative correlation with increased productivity and increased FEC). The new owner of this flock has won breeding awards for being a trait leader for both Disease Resistance and the Productivities.
Unfortunately adoption of this technology by breeders hasn't been widespread, as drenching still has a very good return on expenditure. But the parasite's ability to breed around chemicals is astoundingly fast as now seen in the rapid rise of resistance to all anthelmintic families and many combinations. Breeding resistant sheep is the only long term answer.
My late friend Richard Chantler (High Country Romneys) imported semen from my Romney flock from then leading rams for Resistance. Since then other importations have succeeded these by his family, as these breeding goals continue.

High protein pastures are essential in times of high worm challenge. You can never get enough legume in a pasture from my point of view, for every reason. Unfortunately high tannin legumes are less palatable and lambs need to be trained to eat them. However all legumes respond magnificently to rotational grazing over their shorter growing season. White Clover and Plantain is a rocket fuel feed for lambs, irrespective of their entry FEC.
 

sheepdogtrail

Member
Livestock Farmer
Lungworm is of minor incidence in NZ. However Pneumonia Syndrome (caused by associated pathogens) is extremely common affecting almost all flocks throughout NZ. This problem starts after some lung challenge occurs eg. climatic in the far north, or from increased ammonia present in covered yards essential in the deep south.

High protein pastures are essential in times of high worm challenge. You can never get enough legume in a pasture from my point of view, for every reason. Unfortunately high tannin legumes are less palatable and lambs need to be trained to eat them. However all legumes respond magnificently to rotational grazing over their shorter growing season. White Clover and Plantain is a rocket fuel feed for lambs, irrespective of their entry FEC.

I have reached out to Ag Research to see if they could share some images of what you are calling Pneumonia Syndrome. I am unfamiliar with it here in the US. I am not saying it is not here. I will need to see some example histos and pictures to learn about it. Your geo and environmental explanation seems plausible to me.

I have checked every set of lungs at harvest for the last three years after months of exposure to wildfire smoke we have had in the western part of the US. To date, all lungs look normal to me. Personally, I would like more about the Syndrome. If you have any links you could share I would appreciate it.

Regarding protein pastures. I agree with you 100%. I have leys that are just for that purpose. Ewes and Lambs hit them every three weeks during production for about a week. My FEC scores are mostly in the single digits. It has been at least 10 years since I had any sheep come back with scores in the 100's.
 

neilo

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Montgomeryshire
High Country Romneys have been using genetics from the host farmer of this trial since 2018. We are importing 3 rams from one of the larger participants in this scheme. These rams come with EBVs for FEC, BCS, Methane and CO2 emissions as well as all the normal maternal traits.

Go on then, I’ll bite…

How are measurements taken to give figures for methane and CO2 production, which will be needed to produce ebvs for those? Or are they based on assumed correlations to other measurable traits?
 
I have reached out to Ag Research to see if they could share some images of what you are calling Pneumonia Syndrome. I am unfamiliar with it here in the US. I am not saying it is not here. I will need to see some example histos and pictures to learn about it. Your geo and environmental explanation seems plausible to me.

I have checked every set of lungs at harvest for the last three years after months of exposure to wildfire smoke we have had in the western part of the US. To date, all lungs look normal to me. Personally, I would like more about the Syndrome. If you have any links you could share I would appreciate it.

Regarding protein pastures. I agree with you 100%. I have leys that are just for that purpose. Ewes and Lambs hit them every three weeks during production for about a week. My FEC scores are mostly in the single digits. It has been at least 10 years since I had any sheep come back with scores in the 100's.


@sheepdogtrail; your having carried out numerous lung inspections would have you soon noticing Pneumonia lesions and their Pleurisy footprint as we see in NZ.
What our sheep in NZ suffer is caused by a different association of "bugs" than what is seen in the UK, hence Heptovac was not effective enough to use in NZ as it is in the UK.
Instead of a soft pink colour of normal lung tissue, the affected regions are liver coloured and may occupy large parts of either or both lobes. Affected lambs stop eating, have a fever and stand around with their head lowered. When badly affect they cannot be moved and death is inevitable.
Most lambs recover, but may experience up to a month of nil growth being reduced to an "air frame".
Recovered animals will have pleurisy lesions sticking the lung tissue to the internal lining of the thorax. This lowers the value of the carcass.
A very cold and wet spell of weather (or any other severe stress) may tip previously affected animals, yet apparently healthy, to die suddenly. More common in rams than ewes.


Regarding your very low FECs; do you breed your own rams, or do you source them from numerous breeders? If the latter, I suggest the low numbers are due to environmental reasons as few breeders worldwide breed for Parasite Resistance. If you breed your own and select on low FECs and culling those that exceed a given threshold, you will be achieving low FEC goals genetically.
 
Go on then, I’ll bite…

How are measurements taken to give figures for methane and CO2 production, which will be needed to produce ebvs for those? Or are they based on assumed correlations to other measurable traits?


OK @neilo, I'll answer......
Try this article, as it will save me time writing another screed.
oops. try the link below.

A research colleague of mine from the early 1980s now runs around the country visiting breeders willing to pay the high cost of putting through sufficient numbers per sire progeny line to assess their GHG emissions to derive the BVs.
This may prove a very important addition to performance recording if all NZ farmers have audited GHG emission included in their Farm Assurance Programmes. Using known genetics will enable the GHG calculator to more accurately assess the true value of the farm's carbon output/sequestration.

 
Go on then, I’ll bite…

How are measurements taken to give figures for methane and CO2 production, which will be needed to produce ebvs for those? Or are they based on assumed correlations to other measurable traits?



This should work.



The links in the above post would not allow the transmission.
 

Jimdog1

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Devon
@sheepdogtrail; your having carried out numerous lung inspections would have you soon noticing Pneumonia lesions and their Pleurisy footprint as we see in NZ.
What our sheep in NZ suffer is caused by a different association of "bugs" than what is seen in the UK, hence Heptovac was not effective enough to use in NZ as it is in the UK.
Instead of a soft pink colour of normal lung tissue, the affected regions are liver coloured and may occupy large parts of either or both lobes. Affected lambs stop eating, have a fever and stand around with their head lowered. When badly affect they cannot be moved and death is inevitable.
Most lambs recover, but may experience up to a month of nil growth being reduced to an "air frame".
Recovered animals will have pleurisy lesions sticking the lung tissue to the internal lining of the thorax. This lowers the value of the carcass.
A very cold and wet spell of weather (or any other severe stress) may tip previously affected animals, yet apparently healthy, to die suddenly. More common in rams than ewes.


Regarding your very low FECs; do you breed your own rams, or do you source them from numerous breeders? If the latter, I suggest the low numbers are due to environmental reasons as few breeders worldwide breed for Parasite Resistance. If you breed your own and select on low FECs and culling those that exceed a given threshold, you will be achieving low FEC goals genetically.
Thanks for the reply. I know abattoirs report lung problems found on kill sheets in the uk but not sure if anyone is collating that info. On my own plot vaccinating for pneumonia is a must and is pretty effective. If 30-40% of lambs are effected in NZ surely the development of a vaccine would be the biggest step forward the industry could take in regards to performance and methane and carbon emissions?
 

sheepdogtrail

Member
Livestock Farmer
@sheepdogtrail; your having carried out numerous lung inspections would have you soon noticing Pneumonia lesions and their Pleurisy footprint as we see in NZ.
What our sheep in NZ suffer is caused by a different association of "bugs" than what is seen in the UK, hence Heptovac was not effective enough to use in NZ as it is in the UK.
Instead of a soft pink colour of normal lung tissue, the affected regions are liver coloured and may occupy large parts of either or both lobes. Affected lambs stop eating, have a fever and stand around with their head lowered. When badly affect they cannot be moved and death is inevitable.
Most lambs recover, but may experience up to a month of nil growth being reduced to an "air frame".
Recovered animals will have pleurisy lesions sticking the lung tissue to the internal lining of the thorax. This lowers the value of the carcass.
A very cold and wet spell of weather (or any other severe stress) may tip previously affected animals, yet apparently healthy, to die suddenly. More common in rams than ewes.


Regarding your very low FECs; do you breed your own rams, or do you source them from numerous breeders? If the latter, I suggest the low numbers are due to environmental reasons as few breeders worldwide breed for Parasite Resistance. If you breed your own and select on low FECs and culling those that exceed a given threshold, you will be achieving low FEC goals genetically.
You are correct. I have not seen that. I certainly would remember the appearance of that. Hope you folks get a better understanding and a preventive and treatment plan worked up as soon as possible. Please keep us up to date if you will on it.

We have something called OPP (Ovine Progressive Pneumonia) in North America. It is not the same thing you describe in NZ. See: http://www.oppsociety.org/about-opp.html for more info if you like.

I have breed my own replacement rams for the last 18 years. I have had a closed herd for the last 13 years.
 

Jimdog1

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Devon
You are correct. I have not seen that. I certainly would remember the appearance of that. Hope you folks get a better understanding and a preventive and treatment plan worked up as soon as possible. Please keep us up to date if you will on it.

We have something called OPP (Ovine Progressive Pneumonia) in North America. It is not the same thing you describe in NZ. See: http://www.oppsociety.org/about-opp.html for more info if you like.

I have breed my own replacement rams for the last 18 years. I have had a closed herd for the last 13 years.
Thanks for the link. Not something I have come across - long may that be!
 

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

  • 0 %

    Votes: 79 42.0%
  • Up to 25%

    Votes: 66 35.1%
  • 25-50%

    Votes: 30 16.0%
  • 50-75%

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 75-100%

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 100% I’ve had enough of farming!

    Votes: 7 3.7%

Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

  • 1,291
  • 1
As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
Top