Has Jim Moseley discredited RT?

Yale · Jul 21, 2021

RT has become a scam.

It’s like any organisation which has outgrown its use and believes it’s own hype.

Lies within lies perpetuated by more lies.

Grass And Grain · Jul 21, 2021

Nothing personal against Jim, I guess he does a reasonable job as an employee of RT, and seemed quite dexterous on webinars when speaking.

Think he's summed up what we know, that pesticide declarations or testing is a perfectly good method of assuring the grain safety.

So why have a country specific system whereby any country in the world supplying grain to UK markets can use pesticide declarations/testing as an acceptable quality assurance method, but UK growers are rold they MUST be farm level audited assured by RT or SQC.

We want EQUAL terms and EQUAL market access. There shouldn't be any mention of different rules for different countries, and certainly not made more didficult for UK growers to access our own markets.

RT/AIC are putting us at a competitive disadvantage, seemingly with the only reason being that they get revenue from farmers and feed mills.

RT/AIC can do something about this. I see very little reason for RT to exist for grain, but if I was at RT I'd look to reposition my assurance offering, keep market share, and keep the RT brand. I think they risk losing that, but that's up to RT. I think there's some determined people, who are going to continue campaigning for change.

tullah · Jul 21, 2021

Drillman said:
to answer the OPs question and thread title yes he has! Massively.

On the back of what Jim Mosley has said I believe it’s time we all had full refunds for money spent on a scheme that even leader of states is pointless.

as a member he’s let me down and any credibility rt had is now gone on the back of his statement.

Yes. Goods not fit for purpose.

tullah · Jul 21, 2021

Drillman said:
According to dim Jim there subject to massive amounts of lab tests

but no one is currently able to establish what they are.

Or whereabouts in the hold they are taken from

tullah · Jul 21, 2021

Tarw Coch said:
If he knows they’re subject to massive amounts of tests surely he knows or at least can find out what they are.
Otherwise he’s made a claim that he can’t substantiate,

He can't substantiate any of the claims.

Chris F · Jul 21, 2021

Grass And Grain said:
I thought similar about the TV ad. Think it said "traceable from field to fork".
I can't trace lorry loads leaving my bulk store back to a field.

When I saw the advert I thought of reporting that to the ASA, as its complete nonsense and misleads consumers. BUt then they would just get fined and put up Red Tractor fee's to farmers to cover their incompetence.

Its all a bit embarrassing really, can see why so many refer to him as "dim Jim" in zoom calls. A year ago I felt it was dis-respectful, but have to say, I get their point now.

7610 super q · Jul 21, 2021

I would hope that some of the disgruntlement is getting though. No more rules, and I think they will weather the storm. The health & safety for employees thing is annoying as it's way beyond their remit. Too much more of that and they will bring a sh!testorm of grief upon themselves. Some of us are close to drawing a line in the sand.
So, Mr Mosley, and chums listen on. Your jobs depend on it.

Bury the Trash · Jul 21, 2021

Grass And Grain · Jul 21, 2021

Stolen most of the below text from a DM conversation, so credit for the below words should go to another user, but I thought it summarised it perfectly...

If imports are safer because of a rigorous testing regime, then there's no reason we can't have an "equal to imports" declaration (subject to equivalent test - presumably on a store sample rather than by the lorry load. Only fair when a 50000t boat load is sampled!). Or declatation on lorry load basis.

It also makes a complete joke of the bureaucracy we endure for RT when by Jim's own admission, testing ensures better quality and safety.

texelburger · Jul 21, 2021

Grass And Grain said:
Stolen most of the below text from a DM conversation, so credit for the below words should go to another user, but I thought it summarised it perfectly...

If imports are safer because of a rigorous testing regime, then there's no reason we can't have an "equal to imports" declaration (subject to equivalent test - presumably on a store sample rather than by the lorry load. Only fair when a 50000t boat load is sampled!). Or declatation on lorry load basis.

It also makes a complete joke of the bureaucracy we endure for RT when by Jim's own admission, testing ensures better quality and safety.

Jim does sound a bit of a twit with some of his ill conceived comments,sounds like he talks before thinking . It's helping us though.

Grass And Grain · Jul 21, 2021

texelburger said:
Jim does sound a bit of a twit with some of his ill conceived comments,sounds like he talks before thinking . It's helping us though.

Just been reminded, and if my memory serves me correctly, during one of the RT consultation webinars, Jim touched on the subject of a two tier RT Combinables scheme.

After what he's just said about imports being safe (and remember, imports are without any farm level inspections), maybe he could be convinced to look more closely at the concept. Would we want RT in control - suppose not. Would we want RT to give some ground - it would help.

jonnieboy · Jul 21, 2021

Where and when do these extensive tests take place ? When I was truck driving we used to occasionally bring wheat from the docks into flour mills and there was a same sample process as UK wheat only difference was it was straight onto the intake no waiting for the result
No sampling between boat and store either so when does it take place ? Also what % of volume is extensively sampled ?

tullah · Jul 21, 2021

Grass And Grain said:
Just been reminded, and if my memory serves me correctly, during one of the RT consultation webinars, Jim touched on the subject of a two tier RT Combinables scheme.

After what he's just said about imports being safe (and remember, imports are without any farm level inspections), maybe he could be convinced to look more closely at the concept. Would we want RT in control - suppose not. Would we want RT to give some ground - it would help.

Seeing that he wants a two tier scheme and rates Imports so highly as they have such intensive lab testing then he must be thinking of having the "equal to imports " as the top quality grade and his RT stuff as second grade.

If I was Tesco's or a Miller then I would much prefer the grain that had had intensive lab testing to the RT stuff where farmers just have to tick they've counted a few mites, swept out a trailer and read a pamphlet which of course we all know means nothing.

tullah · Jul 21, 2021

jonnieboy said:
Where and when do these extensive tests take place ? When I was truck driving we used to occasionally bring wheat from the docks into flour mills and there was a same sample process as UK wheat only difference was it was straight onto the intake no waiting for the result
No sampling between boat and store either so when does it take place ? Also what % of volume is extensively sampled ?

I think it's all in the mind.

jonnieboy · Jul 21, 2021

Could we ask RT or AIC to clarify these extensive tests and how does pesticide residue tests work when everyone is aware it’s not a level playing field

tullah · Jul 21, 2021

jonnieboy said:
Could we ask RT or AIC to clarify these extensive tests and how does pesticide residue tests work when everyone is aware it’s not a level playing field

Seeing RT bang on about how superior their stuff is then I'm sure they've done their homework and compared imports to their stuff in order to certify imports as equal to RT. So yes, they will have loads of data on what tests are carried out.
it's more of a question...are they going to come forward with this data. Don't hold your breath because we all know it doesn't exist and it's a fraud.
In answer to the post, yes he has discredited RT.

wanton dwarf · Jul 21, 2021

jonnieboy said:
Where and when do these extensive tests take place ? When I was truck driving we used to occasionally bring wheat from the docks into flour mills and there was a same sample process as UK wheat only difference was it was straight onto the intake no waiting for the result
No sampling between boat and store either so when does it take place ? Also what % of volume is extensively sampled ?

I heard exactly the same. The lorry drivers were tippng the loads direct into stores hours before the workers at the Labs were even at work. I bet at weekends the gap stretches into days.

We are being treated as muck and then expected to pay for the privilage.

Tarw Coch · Jul 22, 2021

Has Jim Moseley discredited RT?
Probably only in the eyes of those who held it in low regard anyway ie farmers.
I very much doubt his comments will make any difference to those further downstream, the supermarkets and consumers so no, he hasn’t discredited RT even if he has confirmed what we already know.

Grass And Grain · Jul 22, 2021

Tarw Coch said:
Has Jim Moseley discredited RT?
Probably only in the eyes of those who held it in low regard anyway ie farmers.
I very much doubt his comments will make any difference to those further downstream, the supermarkets and consumers so no, he hasn’t discredited RT even if he has confirmed what we already know.

I might have got a bit carried away with the thread title.

Maybe "Jim opens the door to an equalt to imports scheme" would have been better.

That said, imports can access our mills by EITHER pesticide testing OR a peaticide declaration. If Jim says that's as good or even better than RT, then why are we needing to jump through all the extra RT hoops (and they were wanting to add a whole lot more!).

On one of the RT consultation webinars, Jim did touch on a two tier RT for grain, so maybe this is where it's going.

Henarar · Jul 22, 2021

Grass And Grain said:
I might have got a bit carried away with the thread title.

Maybe "Jim opens the door to an equalt to imports scheme" would have been better.

That said, imports can access our mills by EITHER pesticide testing OR a peaticide declaration. If Jim says that's as good or even better than RT, then why are we needing to jump through all the extra RT hoops (and they were wanting to add a whole lot more!).

On one of the RT consultation webinars, Jim did touch on a two tier RT for grain, so maybe this is where it's going.

I don't know why you lot don't just take your grain down the docks, sneak it in tip it up and call it import, be less hassle than all this RT blackmail

Has Jim Moseley discredited RT?

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100% I’ve had enough of farming!

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