Autumn manure banned

Ukjay · Aug 1, 2021

Brisel said:
That is my understanding too, especially in the context of protecting water. Manufactured fertiliser is a side issue here.

Is it technically a side issue though, when it could be applied to grass for feeding livestock, so full circle environment life cycle focus?

As with many things, we cannot simply sideline one part when trying to understand the total implications surely?

Luke Cropwalker · Aug 1, 2021

Levelsman said:
The issue is probably more to do with phosphates and potential algal bloom etc.

Down in Somerset, housing developments can't get pp granted on sites because of high phos in soils. They have to show how it will be mitigated.

Also, I believe, more costly than nitrates to extract before going into mains.

Most of the phosphates in water actually comes from sewerage works but agriculture somehow gets the blame again.

Hindsight · Aug 1, 2021

An Gof said:
That’s how I feel too. But it needs some ( many) of NFU Council to stand up and say that in Council. It’s time to get MUCH tougher and for those at the top representing us to smell the coffee. Ramifications from this are huge.

This issue of applying manure when no 'justification for crop need' is not new. Has been an 'issue' for years (decades) ever since the concept of NVZ's arose. And the EA have skirted around and quietly ignored. Now seems to be at the forefront of the agenda. So do we know why? And who (and I mean who - the exact people/person) pushing this. Do the NFU know who in government is pushing the EA (a government agency) to in effect implement the rules. I would expect that is the reason for a NFU - to know wat the score is and the game being played. At face value this issue of no autumn applied manure is an outright overt )covert?) attack on livestock production in the UK.

Adeptandy · Aug 1, 2021

Next think will be to send to Kuwait and burn it with the tyres

Brisel · Aug 1, 2021

Ukjay said:
Is it technically a side issue though, when it could be applied to grass for feeding livestock, so full circle environment life cycle focus?

As with many things, we cannot simply sideline one part when trying to understand the total implications surely?

Yep. Look at the whole picture, but… When considering the Farming Rules for Water no. 1, the EA are only looking at autumn manure applications where the agronomic justification for available N is being questioned in an effort to reduce winter nitrate leaching.

Ukjay · Aug 1, 2021

Brisel said:
Yep. Look at the whole picture, but… When considering the Farming Rules for Water no. 1, the EA are only looking at autumn manure applications where the agronomic justification for available N is being questioned in an effort to reduce winter nitrate leaching.

So, could a person challenge their logic to defend the continued use of FYM later - if say, there was a quantifiable reduction in Synthetic Fertiliser earlier in the life cycle - therefore negating their mono focus on FYM?

Humble Village Farmer · Aug 1, 2021

Ukjay said:
So, could a person challenge their logic to defend the continued use of FYM later - if say, there was a quantifiable reduction in Synthetic Fertiliser earlier in the life cycle - therefore negating their mono focus on FYM?

You don't put synthetic on over winter though do you?

Brisel · Aug 1, 2021

Humble Village Farmer said:
You don't put synthetic on over winter though do you?

Only in explicit examples detailed in NMax and RB209 eg. 30 kg/ha N for osr starter fertiliser before the end of October.

Ukjay · Aug 1, 2021

Humble Village Farmer said:
You don't put synthetic on over winter though do you?

I know you wouldn't (but I dare say some may), however i'm talking full holistic life cycle influences, not fixating simply upon autumn applications like they appear to be - thus I'm just curious and raising different perspective questions on this subject.

If say you can quantify net net, you are technically applying less N to the land by proving reduced use of N throughout the year, could it be argued that their logic is flawed, ergo - potentially, it may be wiser to continue FYM application later for the betterment of the environment vs a simple closed shop mentality?

snarling bee · Aug 1, 2021

What I believe is that the whole interpretation of rule 1 of the FRFW comes from probably one man high up in the EA, who didn't realise the implication of the decision but now is unwilling to back down due to his ego. DEFRA have had no say in it, at least early on, and now are trying to sort out a mess. Apparently rule 1 could be interpreted so that we cannot apply any organic matter to any land/crop at any time, so this guy in the EA thinks he is doing us a favour.

Northern territory · Aug 1, 2021

the way I see it if people are on cold clay soils in the spring, they will have to wait until mid April to apply it then a poor patchy crop will result ending in little uptake of applied manure resulting in even more leaching.

snarling bee · Aug 1, 2021

Northern territory said:
the way I see it if people are on cold clay soils in the spring, they will have to wait until mid April to apply it then a poor patchy crop will result ending in little uptake of applied manure resulting in even more leaching.

Exactly.

Yale · Aug 1, 2021

Northern territory said:
the way I see it if people are on cold clay soils in the spring, they will have to wait until mid April to apply it then a poor patchy crop will result ending in little uptake of applied manure resulting in even more leaching.

snarling bee said:
Exactly.

But the EA know best don’t they….after all they are a bunch of snotty nosed graduates with degrees….not yokels.

Grass And Grain · Aug 1, 2021

snarling bee said:
What I believe is that the whole interpretation of rule 1 of the FRFW comes from probably one man high up in the EA, who didn't realise the implication of the decision but now is unwilling to back down due to his ego. DEFRA have had no say in it, at least early on, and now are trying to sort out a mess. Apparently rule 1 could be interpreted so that we cannot apply any organic matter to any land/crop at any time, so this guy in the EA thinks he is doing us a favour.

Do you think this would pass as a justification...

I've got low lying clay land. I only grow autumn sown crops. I'm adding OM, which increases water holding capacity of the soil, and increases nutrient holding capacity. Therefore reducing leaching.

I'm doing it after harvest when soil is dry, to reduce compaction, soil damage, winter waterlogging and run-off issues.

I'd of thought that was a reasonable agronomic justification. Suppose it doesn't justify a crop requirement for N justification.

ajd132 · Aug 1, 2021

Hindsight said:
Think you are suffering a touch of paranoia this morning old fella. Am sure CF wish - but it is only that, a wish. They and others are welcome to put forward data as and when RB209 is reviewed periodically.

Cf are spouting old flawed experiments in order to get urea banned. These companies are not our friends .

Northern territory · Aug 1, 2021

Yale said:
But the EA know best don’t they….after all they are a bunch of snotty nosed graduates with degrees….not yokels.

You only have to look at the state of rivers. The whole organisation needs a massive shake up from top to bottom.

texelburger · Aug 1, 2021

Luke Cropwalker said:
Most of the phosphates in water actually comes from sewerage works but agriculture somehow gets the blame again.

That's what a local,retired scientist told me,He said it's all a con with hidden agendas.He also said,interestingly, that a proportion of phosphate comes from decaying vegetation such as leaves from the autumn fall.

Against_the_grain · Aug 1, 2021

Northern territory said:
You only have to look at the state of rivers. The whole organisation needs a massive shake up from top to bottom.

This is quite correct. Unfortunately the organisation who are suggesting this ban are the same organisation who think its a good idea to not dredge rivers/ditches in an effort to slow down water flow to help flooding

. Logic is not involved here.

clemmo · Aug 1, 2021

Grass And Grain said:
Do you think this would pass as a justification...

I've got low lying clay land. I only grow autumn sown crops. I'm adding OM, which increases water holding capacity of the soil, and increases nutrient holding capacity. Therefore reducing leaching.

I'm doing it after harvest when soil is dry, to reduce compaction, soil damage, winter waterlogging and run-off issues.

I'd of thought that was a reasonable agronomic justification. Suppose it doesn't justify a crop requirement for N justification.

I doubt that would wash with Farmimg rules for water

Luke Cropwalker · Aug 1, 2021

It appears that this issue is being looked at in isolation by the EA. While the autumn spreading of FYM will result in some of the N ending up in water there are many other benefits from spreading manure, of which we are all aware. Spring spreading will potentially increase ammonia emissions to air, but that is not the remit of the EA. I wonder if the EA are aware of or really care about the repercussions of this?
If tomorrow's announcement does ban autumn spreading then many stock farms and AD plants are going to have to invest very heavily on storage. Even then I wonder if it is actually possible to spread all of the FYM/digestate/slurry in spring?
I will certainly not be taking any sludge or compost until this is sorted out and my muck for straw arrangement will end.

Autumn manure banned

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100% I’ve had enough of farming!

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