Geronimo.

Ffermer Bach

Member
Livestock Farmer

Why Geronimo the alpaca should be killed​

In calculating animal welfare, the general good is usually more important than the individual case
CHARLES MOORE10 August 2021 • 6:00am
Charles Moore


We commentators are conscious that, in the age of accusation by social media, some things that need saying become difficult to say. This can lead, as Sir Tom Stoppard recently put it, to “self-cancellation”. It is our job to resist that tendency.
In that spirit, therefore, and conscious that I write under the shadow of the animal equivalent of the gallows, I think it worth saying that Geronimo, the alpaca, should be killed.
Geronimo has been tested according to the rules, and twice been found positive for bovine TB (bTB). This process has been supported by a court of law, which upheld the validity of the tests. There are, of course, long-running disputes about the best methods of controlling the disease, but it is unfair of the alpaca’s owner, Helen Macdonald, to describe his cull as “barbaric”. It is the current norm, and must remain so until there is an effective vaccination against bTB. The motive for culling is a civilised one – to protect the species, and other species threatened.
In calculating animal welfare, the general good is usually more important than the individual case. If Geronimo’s infection is a danger to other “camelids”, and/or other animals, it is kinder to them to put him down. It is not cruel to him in the way such a policy would be cruel to a human being, because he is not a human being. He is sentient, but he cannot be terrified of his fate, because he knows nothing about it. He is not, as human beings are, morally autonomous.
George Eustice, the Defra Secretary, comes from a farming family which has had similarly sad bTB cases, and consequent cullings, among its pedigree South Devon cattle. As he says: “Each week, on average, we have to remove more than 500 cattle from herds due to infection in England alone.”
Placeholder image for youtube video: QvUL-beJlvE

It is morally wrong that Geronimo should be reprieved because his owner loves him very much. Most people – farmers, riders, pet owners – love their animals. Most of them accept this should not exempt them from health rules.
Nor should Geronimo be privileged because people think he is lovely, cuddly, etc. That is simply a matter of human taste and shows no concern for actual animal welfare. It would be wrong to reprieve an alpaca on these grounds while cheerfully slaughtering a cow.
Geronimo’s vet, Iain McGill, said: “George Eustice has blatantly lied about the tests used on Geronimo.” That is not a professional way of talking. It is almost as bad as Boris Johnson’s father, Stanley, who describes the cull as a “murderous errand”.
Mr McGill goes on to say that Mr Eustice “has also made multiple false claims about the success of the badger cull”. That is the language of political campaigning, not science.
It is certainly sad for Ms Macdonald if Geronimo dies, but natural sympathy for her is an inadequate reason for overriding law, policy and wider animal welfare. If Geronimo could think and speak like a human being – and, I re-emphasise, he cannot – he could do worse than deliver, as his last words, the famous lines of Sydney Carton as he stands in for another and faces the guillotine at the end of Dickens’s A Tale of Two Cities: “It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done.”
 

Bald Rick

Moderator
Livestock Farmer
Location
Anglesey
I see Ms Macdonald (there is a joke in there somewhere - probably in very bad taste) has raised her own "militia" to protect the beastie ....

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It's also international news with Washington Post running the story.

Still can't get my head around Morrison's flogging Octopi for 39p each never mind this story.

What a mess
 

Muck Spreader

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Limousin
I see Ms Macdonald (there is a joke in there somewhere - probably in very bad taste) has raised her own "militia" to protect the beastie ....

View attachment 978951

It's also international news with Washington Post running the story.

Still can't get my head around Morrison's flogging Octopi for 39p each never mind this story.

What a mess
Maybe they should all kiss the animal on the lips as sign of loyalty to it. :whistle:

Ruddy idiots, this diseased animal should have been put down years ago. Presumably she has other stock, pets, family that are at risk from bTB?
 

Bald Rick

Moderator
Livestock Farmer
Location
Anglesey
Maybe they should all kiss the animal on the lips as sign of loyalty to it. :whistle:

Ruddy idiots, this diseased animal should have been put down years ago. Presumably she has other stock, pets, family that are at risk from bTB?

She has 80 other alpacas. This beast is one of her studs so I assume he has been romantic with some of the girl alpacas unless Ms Macdonald observed strict quarantine rules ..
 

Hfd Cattle

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Hereford
If I had just a few cows and I didn't need them to make a living off then the scenario would be that if one tested positive I could mount a legal challenge and it could rumble on for a few yrs . They wouldn't be able to touch the cow until it was settled by law . It would shut me down but as I wouldn't be needing to sell then I could ride the storm .
However ...because like every farmer I need to be able to trade then if I get a reactor the last thing I would want to do is to delay being clear again so I go with it and hope for the next 2 clear tests .
I've had it said to me twice since Sat " what a clever woman why don't we do the same and legally challenge it " ...after explaing the above scenario they both said Oh what a stupid woman ( or words to that effect!)
 
Location
East Mids
If my research is correct, this animal had a skin test in NZ, and it’s owner is blaming that tuberculin antigen for its subsequent (two) positive tests. Cattle get the same antigen every 60 days while under restriction.

And skin tests for alpacas are fraught, and give miserable results. In the U.K. they’re not done in the neck, but in the thin soft skin behind the elbow. And with a 2mm tolerance, not 4mm as cattle on standard interpretation. So blood tests are favoured. But what blood tests?
VLA Weybridge have tested several and the alpaca society‘s favourite, Enferplex is the weakest of them all.

If the owner is really a vet, then living in Glos. she should have a more encompassing view of TB in general and TB in alpacas in particular.

And she should also be aware of another alpaca called Balthazar.


She has been quoted as saying the animal has been in quarantine since arrival from NZ. Which seems pretty poor fate for a herd animal
I read that he had been quarantined on her farm 'with some other alpacas.'
 

Exfarmer

Member
Location
Bury St Edmunds
listening to the news on the radio about this did I hear correctly that TB testing alpacas was voluntary ?
Correct, apparently less than 5% are
This is why so many fail as they only test when Ver says “ this is a seriously sick animal, have you checked for TB.
I guess this lady thought she would get one up in the game and advertise his services guaranteed TB free.
 
listening to the news on the radio about this did I hear correctly that TB testing alpacas was voluntary ?

Yup. You heard correctly.
No ID for non pedigrees either.
No movement records.
Drive by matings.

Need I go on?

Correct, apparently less than 5% are
This is why so many fail as they only test when Ver says “ this is a seriously sick animal, have you checked for TB.
I guess this lady thought she would get one up in the game and advertise his services guaranteed TB free.

That’s about the size of it.
 

steveR

Member
Mixed Farmer
Actually the government say that you should not let cattle come into contact with badgers.

You should ( according to the Gov ) fence off any area that the badgers occupy/ travel across and restrict cattle to areas that the badgers do not occupy/ travel across.

Ie the badgers should have free reign and the cattle should live around the badgers, some talk that all farmers will have to badger fence their entire boundary's going forwards, quite where they then think the badgers will live seems to have been missed!

Move into towns with the Urban foxes.... now that will fun!
 
I understood that the alpaca's time ran out this afternoon ( Monday) - that the legal warrant to slaughter it expired at this time . Is it still alive ? And if so , how much linger can they drag it out ?
 

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