Don't push us too far, warning to Taliban.
- Thread starter manhill
- Start date
- Location
- Limousin
Who is now saying this, Biden, Boris or you?
- Location
- Limousin, France
Biden on the news, " the sooner we're out the better!"
So it's Saigon all over again. Last helicopter off the roof , loads of people left behind. Then the executions.
So it's Saigon all over again. Last helicopter off the roof , loads of people left behind. Then the executions.
- Location
- Limousin, France
Rory Stewart has said , " The long term operational capability of UK forces would be better served by greater co-operation and integration with European nations such as France and the Netherlands."
" but doing this would require a dramatic reshaping of our armed forces - and a rewriting of the Integrated Review. France is currently closer than Britain to being able to deploy independently"
" but doing this would require a dramatic reshaping of our armed forces - and a rewriting of the Integrated Review. France is currently closer than Britain to being able to deploy independently"
Pieces_of_Eight
Member
Then the Taliban say "any foreign troops staying beyond August will be considered a violation".
Who will flinch first? The Talibs have most to lose by backing down first.
Who will flinch first? The Talibs have most to lose by backing down first.
- Location
- Limousin
And I think he is quite right. Should have done the same as most of the coalition forces, straight in give the terrorist nut jobs a good fuking and back out again. The US and the UK stayed too long trying to change hearts and minds, which was never going to happen.
- Location
- Limousin, France
Charlie Wilson's War. With Tom Hanks, well worth watching.
Edit. Netflix.fr
Pieces_of_Eight
Member
With the Pashtun majority siding with the Taliban, who can offer gainful employment to a deprived rural population using their opium income, the end result was always going to be the same.
In for two years of combat or 20 years, still end up with the Taliban in charge.
Only alternative would be to split the country along tribal boundaries (e.g. North & South Sudan) but I can't see the Talibs agreeing with that.
A few major lessons from this debacle.
1. America first and America only, is now the de facto domestic political calculation of both Republicans and Democrats in USA.
2. UK and EU / Europe, can no longer depend on USA as a strategic reliable defence partner.
3. UK, may as well totally write off even the slimmest prospect of a beneficial trade deal with USA. Any such deal will be America first and America only.
4. EU and UK, are quite simply going to need to form a military alliance for mutual protection.
5. EU army is a must have. The sooner the better.
6. UK in the midst of it‘s own internal existential crisis, now has another more external crisis. It has walked away from its most important strategic partner / market in EUland and has been kicked out of the bed by Uncle Sam.
7. @Danllan ‘s heroic efforts to breathe life into his irrelevant pipe dream CONZUK, isn‘t worth the paper it isn’t written on.
8. Undeterred by unrequited love, political, economic and military irrelevance, UK will still march dutifully to the American tune, next time it decides it wants to invade, I mean protect democracy in another country.
1. America first and America only, is now the de facto domestic political calculation of both Republicans and Democrats in USA.
2. UK and EU / Europe, can no longer depend on USA as a strategic reliable defence partner.
3. UK, may as well totally write off even the slimmest prospect of a beneficial trade deal with USA. Any such deal will be America first and America only.
4. EU and UK, are quite simply going to need to form a military alliance for mutual protection.
5. EU army is a must have. The sooner the better.
6. UK in the midst of it‘s own internal existential crisis, now has another more external crisis. It has walked away from its most important strategic partner / market in EUland and has been kicked out of the bed by Uncle Sam.
7. @Danllan ‘s heroic efforts to breathe life into his irrelevant pipe dream CONZUK, isn‘t worth the paper it isn’t written on.
8. Undeterred by unrequited love, political, economic and military irrelevance, UK will still march dutifully to the American tune, next time it decides it wants to invade, I mean protect democracy in another country.
Isn't this exactly the problem, everyone seems to think we need to join up with either the yanks or the EU just so that one day we can invade someone else's country, all the UK really needs an armed force for is to deter anyone else thinking they can attack the UK in which case nuclear seems like a good stand by additional deterrent.
It is up to other countries to provide their own deterrents, the only vaguely likely aggressors are Russia & China neither of which are likely to think of the UK as a first port of call, we should be far more like Switzerland & keep our noses out of other countries business & make damm sure that our own defences are adequate!
Last edited:
But the EU are never going to have an army you and other remainers kept telling us this,
- Location
- Limousin, France
Yet when the French are cautious and council against involvement they're called " Cheese eating surrender monkeys"
The UK will follow Uncle Sam . End of . Have to stay relevant don't you know. Having f**ked everyone else off, it's the only port in the storm.
- Location
- Northumberland
That just about sums the job up,and is the truth of it.
- Location
- Westish Suffolk
Did wonder when Boris said the other month that he didn't like the term 'special relationship' with the US anymore if he had read the writing on the wall.
Havent heard much about the gloved fist armada sent to frighten the Chinese. You know, the UK carrier with American planes on it....
Havent heard much about the gloved fist armada sent to frighten the Chinese. You know, the UK carrier with American planes on it....
You remember those inflatable tanks & planes they used during World War 2 to fool the Germans now it's just a case of inflated boats which fool no one!
- Location
- Scottish Highlands
If you're referring to the 'Project Fear' from the pro brexit brigade, the claim was that the UK would be forced into joining an EU army against the will of the electorate. That claim was debunked at the time, through reference to the various legal hurdles that would need overcome - including a legally binding vote by said electorate, iirc.
Which is a little bit different from what you've written above.
Never mind though - you won, you're getting exactly what you asked for (including all those things that were claimed to be 'Project Fear', such as a border in the Irish Sea, rules about what types of pallets can be used for cross border transactions, huge levels of customs paperwork etc.).
- Location
- Carmarthenshire, West Wales
The problem I can see with an EU Army, is the EU can never decide to do anything, I think we would be better to try to increase our armed forces so that we were able to do things (like The Falkland's) independently.
TechWise
Member
- Location
- South Ayrshire, Scotland
Why are Europeans so arrogant as to suggest that it's the Americans who are the unreliable partner? Most of Europe has sat back and let the US protect them for over 70 years.
There's thousands of Americans defending the airport at Kabul. Most of the transport aircraft are American. The Apaches flying overwatch are American. The air traffic control is American. The recon aircraft are American. The refueling aircraft are American.
The second largest contributor is the UK, who are proving a ground presence around 1000 troops and a sizeable air transport fleet, operating out of a UK sovereign base area on Cyprus, where the passengers are being offloaded onto RAF voyagers for the final leg back to Brize Norton.
With that in mind, can someone explain to me what the mighty EU is providing? The entirety of the EU has managed to muster a fraction of what the UK and the US are providing. The Germans - one of the world's largest economies - where is their transport fleet and their troops?
The EU hierarchy do plenty of talking, but when push comes to shove, it's the US and the UK getting the job done.
There's thousands of Americans defending the airport at Kabul. Most of the transport aircraft are American. The Apaches flying overwatch are American. The air traffic control is American. The recon aircraft are American. The refueling aircraft are American.
The second largest contributor is the UK, who are proving a ground presence around 1000 troops and a sizeable air transport fleet, operating out of a UK sovereign base area on Cyprus, where the passengers are being offloaded onto RAF voyagers for the final leg back to Brize Norton.
With that in mind, can someone explain to me what the mighty EU is providing? The entirety of the EU has managed to muster a fraction of what the UK and the US are providing. The Germans - one of the world's largest economies - where is their transport fleet and their troops?
The EU hierarchy do plenty of talking, but when push comes to shove, it's the US and the UK getting the job done.
- Location
- Scottish Highlands
They officially pulled the last of their forces out in June, but there are some (Reuters) reports suggesting that they still have troops at Kabul airport.
Watching FR24, it seems to be Hungarian, US, Australian and U.K. transporters doing the majority of the lifting.
- Location
- fakenham-norfolk
Was it not always thus ?