This^^^
Government telling farmers to go Organic with out educating them & in a short time scale is bound to end in disaster.
Switch to organic farming causes chaos in Sri Lanka
- Thread starter Goweresque
- Start date
Government telling farmers to go Organic with out educating them & in a short time scale is bound to end in disaster.
To be fair countrywide yields Havnt really risen for 25 years, only slightly. But we are in a constant battle of resistance hoping a new chemical comes along to save us.
I think we can get over this with a mixture of technology and being better at harnessing soil biology, perhaps genetics too. The chemical/fertiliser age is coming to an end, but has played its part in the continual evolution of agriculture.
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- Location
- East Sussex
You can produce organically and I am sure it will help save the Planet, however the key to it is that you starve some 80% of the population to death until you end up with both a sustainable food supply and a level of population that can be fed in this way.
I am not sure the worlds politicians are ready for this yet. I seem to remember the Mad Max movies were verging on this!!
I am not sure the worlds politicians are ready for this yet. I seem to remember the Mad Max movies were verging on this!!
betweenthelines
Member
- Location
- southwest
And the evidence for that is..............................?
betweenthelines
Member
- Location
- southwest
That's not just a third world problem.
Can't get the barley to ripen because your growing it in an area that's less than marginal-get the Roundup on!
- Location
- South Molton
Imagine being dropped in the deep end with no knowledge of a subject or how it works.
Like an arable farmer milking cows or visa versa.
No wonder it failed
Like an arable farmer milking cows or visa versa.
No wonder it failed
wanton dwarf
Member
You will never replicate chemical Nitrogen nor the other beneficial chemicals.
The organics required to create Nitrogen within soil require biology to be constrained of food chemicals by the plants. If the soil already has enough nutrients for the biology to exist happily without help from the plant then no constraining of food supplies to the biology can happen.
On top of this there is a requirement for crops to maximise the utilisation of light. Plants and biology cannot replicate the actions of various chemicals to promote the generation of Chlorophyll.
letters after your name maybe? 'Mr Silliamwhale SCP'
- Location
- Newcastle upon Tyne
Maybe that is the answer. Like Peak Oil, we probably reched Peak Population 2 billion people ago and presemt levels of populationare not sustainable without the world going into meltdown
- Location
- Scottish Highlands
It’s notable that when Haber and Bosch invented the artificial nitrogen process and the commercialised it in 1913, the world population was under 2billion.
JohnGalway
Member
- Location
- Connemara, Ireland
I don't subscribe to the theory that synthetic chems are necessary. I haven't spread fert for a few years now, I've more grass than I know what to do with this summer tbh. Other issues, such as animal health on a wet farm are trickier and will take longer to iron out.
I'll leave the past where it is, as the saying goes, don't look backwards you're not going that way.
I know a bit about soil biology, it's a little more nuanced than it stops working in the presence of chems. It appears to me there are shades of grey in relation to damage. But, in the absence of me dedicating my life to a research career I avoid them where I can, and when I can't I try to remediate the possible damage.
I fully agree about the synthetic chem companies profiteering, on our backs basically.
I'm not defending organics, as I said I'm not organic. I think it's value is an illusory one which the public, and I, have/had. I was quite surprised when I first visited an organic cattle farm as I asked how they handled parasites. It was basically how a conventional farm would do, except slightly more evidence needed, a photo of ticks, or FEC test. That honestly shocked me.
As to yield, for my own farm, the plan is sell differently.
betweenthelines
Member
- Location
- southwest
You'll be on Countryfile soon as one of their "experts"!
- Location
- Warwickshire
Breakthru
Member
- Location
- Scottish Borders
Not to be so brutal in disagreement as per others but I have been soil sampling for decades and can tell you that many soils I work on are in better condition than many years ago. Some min till others not but what is most noticeable is the mixed stock farms have to remove soil from the gateways to get them to open. Not just the stock standing at the gate by the way, a general increase in soil overall.
- Location
- Carmarthenshire, West Wales
I have no evidence, however, it is undeniable that how we have treated our soils, especially since the steel plough ad tractor was invented has not been good, here is an example of an article that talks about soil health
Do We Still Only Have 60 Harvests Left?
With the passing of National Ag Day last week, we celebrate what’s been done to improve the sustainability of farming operations, but look ahead to what we must do to preserve and protect food security for future generations.
www.no-tillfarmer.com
- Location
- Carmarthenshire, West Wales
another interesting book on how societies fail, which talks in part about how soil is treated
Collapse: How Societies Choose to Fail or Survive: Amazon.co.uk: Diamond, Jared: 9780241958681: Books
Buy Collapse: How Societies Choose to Fail or Survive 01 by Diamond, Jared (ISBN: 9780241958681) from Amazon's Book Store. Everyday low prices and free delivery on eligible orders.
www.amazon.co.uk
Cowabunga
Member
- Location
- Ceredigion,Wales
Yes. Also in many cases because farms are not so 'mixed' these days, around here the erosion of soil down hills has stopped. Over several centuries of mixed cropping and ploughing many of my hedges are undercut on the top of the fields and have deep soil on the bottom hedges. This has been reversed during my farming career because when I do reseed, which is as spaced apart as ten to fifteen years, large tractor with long throw plough moves the soil up hill. Do that three times or more over the years and it very noticeably corrects prior generation's soil migration issues.
Plus, of course, fertility and soil is greatly increased due to buying in of feed, both in the form of fertiliser and the muck that is recycled from increased yields and bought in feed. The condition of the soil and its structure is also vastly improved over what it was here 50 years plus ago, because animals are housed over the wet Winter months rather than kept out to puddle their high ground pressure feet that created serious panning and indeed erosion due to the mudding and rainfall.
The past was by far the worst, even down to farm pollution. I remember when every farm had a dirty water discharge license with middens that drained into brooks and rivers almost universally. The old cowsheds had muck passages behind the cows which always drained directly into a watercourse. The dry muck was carted out by wheelbarrow to a midden but the liquid pish all went out of a hole at the end of the building and 'disappeared'. Nobody gave a second's thought.
I think the discharge licenses were revoked by ministry contractors going around conning farmers to sign their rights away some time in the mid 1970's. Quite rightly of course, as waterways were very grossly and permanently polluted everywhere in livestock areas. Most areas had livestock back then of course.
Breakthru
Member
- Location
- Scottish Borders
Ploughing down the hill was a disaster and when tractors became more powerful that was as you say corrected.
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
Do you actually want/need to extract more from your land?
I love reading people trumpeting about their increased yields, knowing that nearly all that extra yield is either flushed out to sea or dumped in landfill
and has created the situation that food is cheap enough that nobody gives a sh!t about that.Basically it's about increasing pollution, or not, the details of inputs matter very very little to the bigger picture - the whole modern production model is built around desperate people doing desperate things: an attempt to make an unsustainably large and uncaring population appear sustainable