Farming without bagged Fertiliser

Old apprentice

Member
Arable Farmer
I have read that sprayed urea with conventional nozzels is 5 to 7 times more efficient than spreading urea but spraying urea will scorch if to much sprayed at once urea contains biruet a by produt of the manufacturing process all to do with temperatures of manufacturing if you can get urea at less than 1 percent biruet that helps not to scorch . I have asked AHDB local rep if this could be put forward to do some proper research on this if some research was done to find out all times this could be done a significant fertilizer savings could be made .
The idea is to do this work on wheat and barley no idea of doing this on other arable crops. Could help uk ag with posible n pollution?
 

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
I'm waiting for @Kiwi Pete to comment on farming without bagged N


Also curious as to whether/why importing nutrients in the form of feed is deemed better than just buying a few tonnes of Nitram.
You've already got plenty of N cycling in the system without adding any 🤷‍♂️ the key really is to just not lose much of what is there.

Most of what is added on top is really just pollution not profit, eg if you have a cow per acre then there's roughly 250kgN/ha cycling in the biological system... Daisy's liver is busy enough dealing with that little lot, you can make her make more milk but it comes at a cost

The main thing you notice is that the vet bills' decimal point shifts across a notch, and pasture management is a heck of a lot easier without it - but that's on an efficient grazing system because that cycle is healthy.

It can soon be lost from that cycle though, eg make a stack of silage somewhere and all that N is parked up.
Really all it does is alter time - the grass comes earlier and signs off earlier. The cow makes 30,000 litres earlier and dies younger.
 
I see QLF do quite a bit to this Foliar feeding and liquid fertiliser. Found them very helpful with molasses products when I used them in the past.

Slurry additive was another area of interest but again all a bit of a dark science.
 

Martyn

Member
Location
South west
Picking up on you’re wormers comment how do you get round this? Currently use ivomec super at dry off cheers
Cows to honest we worm count but not an issue other than fluke, if needed levacide products are ok but if your going to house try not to spread the dung for 12 months. I think the ivomec based wormers are the worse for soil. @Sid will soon say.
 

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
Can't say that they named the make of it.

But the info was very interesting - the efficiency was significantly better than granular so assuming logistics can be sorted I'd be very keen to learn more.
They're a good bit of kit, the solution is in constant agitation and is also always flowing past the nozzles - like the way fuel injection has a return to tank - so alot of "sprayer problems" just don't happen. Nozzles are electrically operated.

They will pass solids up to about 3.2mm so things like slag (out of your urea granules) that don't dissolve, won't block your nozzles or filters.
 

Ffermer Bach

Member
Livestock Farmer
No, it’s more! I think it hasn’t been an issue previously as N has been comparatively cheap and does show a very good return. Now with the price increase and more regulation of N in water, the trial results will put the cat among the pigeons!
I think it was exactly the same issue with lack of insulation in British houses, coal was so cheap, we didn't need to bother building them to be well insulated.
 

Sid

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
South Molton
Cows to honest we worm count but not an issue other than fluke, if needed levacide products are ok but if your going to house try not to spread the dung for 12 months. I think the ivomec based wormers are the worse for soil. @Sid will soon say.
Ivomectin based products have a highly detrimental effect on soil life.

Some of those issues could be in the milk consumed with the increased use of Eprinex in lactating cows 🙄.

Any thing that goes into an animal has to come out at some point
 

Ffermer Bach

Member
Livestock Farmer
Picking up on you’re wormers comment how do you get round this? Currently use ivomec super at dry off cheers
if you are organic the one family of wormers you can't use is Ivormectin, because they are so long acting, they stay active in the dung and screw up all the dung beetles/invertebrates. I have just discovered that Click extra for the fly strike does the same.
 
Tried it a good few times but it just doesn’t take to being cut so frequently.

I’ve not got the acres or inclination to complicate things with break crops etc which may well be lazy but I’ve got enough to keep me occupied.

What we are doing is working well but with the Arla carbon footprint and the increase in costs in bagged N (although on the 20 tons I use it’s not hugely significant) I was just wondering if anyone is farming intensively and still getting the DM outputs without it.

Bag fert is always the easy answer and I suspect that any alternative will be more complicated.

I'd like to be proved wrong but in a high rainfall area like yours nothing will out yield ryegrasses but ryegrass is a very N hungry crop. Your three options for N are; out of a bag, fixed by legumes or breaking down organic matter. A degree of N will always be lost from the system and will always need replacing via legumes or bag.
 

Durry cows

Member
Location
Derbyshire
Ivomectin based products have a highly detrimental effect on soil life.

Some of those issues could be in the milk consumed with the increased use of Eprinex in lactating cows 🙄.

Any thing that goes into an animal has to come out at some point
We do them at dry off as it treats all worms, fluke and parasites, don’t know what the answer is as to best alternative?
 

Homesy

Member
Location
North West Devon
Ivomectin based products have a highly detrimental effect on soil life.

Some of those issues could be in the milk consumed with the increased use of Eprinex in lactating cows 🙄.

Any thing that goes into an animal has to come out at some point
I read somewhere that Ivomec killed off an estimated 99% of dung beetles in the USA. Can't remember where I read so how true that is I do not know. I also read that in Canada, cowpats from treated animals were still intact after 12 months. Scary.
 

Martyn

Member
Location
South west
if you are organic the one family of wormers you can't use is Ivormectin, because they are so long acting, they stay active in the dung and screw up all the dung beetles/invertebrates. I have just discovered that Click extra for the fly strike does the same.
Is the normal click ok? I used click extra this year, I dint think of as a wormer, my fault.
 
Location
southwest
I read somewhere that Ivomec killed off an estimated 99% of dung beetles in the USA. Can't remember where I read so how true that is I do not know. I also read that in Canada, cowpats from treated animals were still intact after 12 months. Scary.

But it's not just beetles that break down dung pats (or fym) the weather plays a big part.
 

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Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

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As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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