Guy Smith's response to FW article on AIC rules.

Henarar

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Somerset
i actually did research into off shoring my farm business ! not for tax reasons but so i could sell to uk merchants as imported crop 🤣🤣
Just declare independence then anything you sell would be imported to the UK, don't think its that difficult but the downside is you will get no protection from invasion
 
This is perhaps something that Farmers Weekly might be able to help with? @AM_Arable


Would be great if they could do some journalism on this.

I mean why not ask the AIC for an interview to explain why they have their position?
Why not interview one of the testing labs so the livestock man can be reassured that the imports are up to standard of the UK stuff (or down to standard according to the head of the millers)
 

Grass And Grain

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Yorks
several of us have been asking / digging and so far we have no answers

no one wants to tell us ………. which is incredibly suspicious IMO

i would love to hear from anyone who knows - 100% in confidence if necessary

Would be great if they could do some journalism on this.

I mean why not ask the AIC for an interview to explain why they have their position?
Why not interview one of the testing labs so the livestock man can be reassured that the imports are up to standard of the UK stuff (or down to standard according to the head of the millers)
AHDB said getting the pesticide test information is proving difficult (not their exact words, but effectively that). Commercially sensitive blah, blah, blah.

Even if the pesticide tests are getting done, clearly there isn't anyone checking to see if the grain has passed the tests. No-one auditing it, no paper trail from AIC checking it.

AIC (and RT) need asking if these imports are safe to feed to our farmed animals, and ultimately to the consumer. If the answer is "yes, it's safe", then they've no reason to not afford UK growers the same methods of grain assurance.

I can already see where NFU and AHDB are going with their investigations into cost of assuring imports. They're already making noises that it isn't any cheaper than a uk farmer being RT assured, but this certainly wouldn't be the case for a large central store who could test 20,000t of wheat in same manner as a boat.

@ajd132 @Woldgrain Storage I think you need to write to AIC, explain your bulk stores are akin to a boat load of grain, and ask AIC to let you assure it by same method as they allow for imports.

AIC want independant GAFTA attendants to do the sampling . You are AIC TASCC approved merchants and stores, therefore they should trust you are up to the job.

TASCC merchants are trusted to keep non-assured grain separate from assured, they're trusted with only putting a TASCC assurance sticker on the passport if it is genuinely assured grain on that lorry, so you should be trusted to take a few samples and send it off for independent testing.
 

Grass And Grain

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Yorks
Because asking for proof that a vendor didn't commit a crime is not how business should work.
Yes teslacoils, but equally, in this scenario, why shouldn't livestock farmers aak for this information if this is the standard of grain they are told is in their feed.

Edit, think the suggestion was a method of checking up on AIC and their so called rules.
 

teslacoils

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lincolnshire
Yes teslacoils, but equally, in this scenario, why shouldn't livestock farmers aak for this information if this is the standard of grain they are told is in their feed.

Edit, think the suggestion was a method of checking up on AIC and their so called rules.

We currently declare on the passport on section 8 that we don't grow crops on various special bits of land.

I'd have no problem having a section 9 where I sign to declare I've grown it according to UK law.

This is surely adequate?
 
IF a co op offered equal to imports bulk testing (and i can see no reason why it couldn’t). it’s members would have have no red tractor requirement so could save the cost

why are the co-op stores not doing this ?

@Woldgrain Storage ? have you offered your membership this mechanism to save them RT costs ? if not, why not ?

Dare I say that coop stores should be....cooperating.

So far we have not been approached by any prospective members who are non-assured, or any existing members who would like to drop their assurance. Similarly it has never been brought up in a members' AGM.

Without a major strategic re-think we would not have the ability to segregate our current intake into assured/non-assured.

Also, if some clarity arrives relating to the detail of testing, we would know what is possible and what isn't.
 

teslacoils

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lincolnshire
@Woldgrain Storage I'd drop my accs tomorrow. We are assured because we need to be to access markets that imports do not need to be, and we receive no payment for being assured. Consequently, non assured growers receive a penalty to access the same mills as imports, despite our basic legal standards are above those of imported grain - grain which, in a bulk on the dockside, can be self certified as acceptable to mills by a certain tickbox method that we are denied.
 
As a cooperative store we are stuck in a triangle between the growers, merchants and mills, but without any of the leverage provided by legal ownership of the grain itself.

A commercial store could just take a big gamble and build storage for non-assured grain without needing to involve AIC/TASCC/RT.


I'd drop my accs tomorrow.

Do you know if your merchant trades non-assured crop?
 

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
So far we have not been approached by any prospective members who are non-assured, or any existing members who would like to drop their assurance. Similarly it has never been brought up in a members' AGM.

Without a major strategic re-think we would not have the ability to segregate our current intake into assured/non-assured.

Also, if some clarity arrives relating to the detail of testing, we would know what is possible and what isn't.

you have no need to segregate and none of your members have any need to be assured - you just bulk test and sell to AIC mills / merchants like imports do

you should be going to membership with this idea - most probably don’t even realise its an option

you could be saving your members £5 per t or more
 
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Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
As a cooperative store we are stuck in a triangle between the growers, merchants and mills, but without any of the leverage provided by legal ownership of the grain itself.

A commercial store could just take a big gamble and build storage for non-assured grain without needing to involve AIC/TASCC/RT.




Do you know if your merchant trades non-assured crop?

you are not stuck - you have just bern suckered in to playing this daft game like many others until it became the normal

under AIC gatekeeper rules you can sell non farm assured cereals to the same AIC mills and merchants as “assured” by simply bulk testing/ asking for a farmer declaration on intake
 

Humble Village Farmer

Member
BASE UK Member
Location
Essex
Whether Guy Smith has got the skill set or not, I defy anyone to answer questions about red tractor truthfully without discrediting the brand. So the only option is to answer like the chap on the today programme:

"Yes or no minister?"

"What I would like to say is..."

"Yes or no?"

"This government is improving...."

"Yes or no" etc
 

Steevo

Member
Location
Gloucestershire
AHDB said getting the pesticide test information is proving difficult (not their exact words, but effectively that). Commercially sensitive blah, blah, blah.

Anyone can go on the Red Tractor website and look up the standards that UK farmers have to comply with in easily downloadable PDF documents.

 

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Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

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As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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