Another nail in to the coffin of UK agriculture?

john432 · Oct 10, 2021

I would say that it's the lack of mixed farming if anything that had led to any less biodiversity.In my area it is permanent mainly sheep grazing..very little ploughing and reseeding, and virtually no cropping..any the so called experts wonder why the barn owls for example have disappeared!

Top Tip. · Oct 10, 2021

john432 said:
I would say that it's the lack of mixed farming if anything that had led to any less biodiversity.In my area it is permanent mainly sheep grazing..very little ploughing and reseeding, and virtually no cropping..any the so called experts wonder why the barn owls for example have disappeared!

Very true ,the truth is that biodiversity was at its peak when the UK was farmed by an army of small farmers all running mixed farms with a mix of livestock,grain and root crops. The drive for cheap food has led to large scale monoculture which is efficient but doesn’t do a lot for biodiversity.

ajd132 · Oct 10, 2021

holwellcourtfarm said:
Agreed.
Noticeable that the livestock areas of Suffolk appear much more biodiverse than the arable areas though. Extensive pastoral farming generally delivers more for nature in my experience. We need all types of farming to feed ourselves but we also need a good balance.

Your comment that "I suspect the majority of farmers are still have this post war attitude that they are growing food and should be put on a pedestal, ‘thank a farmer’ etc type crap" reflects my experience too.

Yes agree, we are trying on the arable side though but some more than others. I guess many are working more considerably with nature as a threat rather than opportunity which is sad

kfpben · Oct 10, 2021

ajd132 said:
Yes agree, we are trying on the arable side though but some more than others. I guess many are working more considerably with nature as a threat rather than opportunity which is sad

The problem is though nature is a threat.

The very essence of farming is growing what you want to grow (ie. a crop) rather than what nature wants to grow.

If I let nature do it’s thing I’d have some very weedy fields, diseased crops and sheep being eaten alive by maggots.

ajd132 · Oct 10, 2021

kfpben said:
The problem is though nature is a threat.

The very essence of farming is growing what you want to grow (ie. a crop) rather than what nature wants to grow.

If I let nature do it’s thing I’d have some very weedy fields, diseased crops and sheep being eaten alive by maggots.

But there is balance which many are beginning to find. You still meet people who are putting multiple insecticides on flea beetle and still losing crops. It doesn’t work and it’s just complete lunacy.

dowcow · Oct 10, 2021

GeorgeK said:
And this presumably has nothing to do with it

The population density of the EU is 117 people per km2.

The population density in the United States is 36 per Km2.

The population density in the United Kingdom is 281 per Km2.

And that figure is very much helped by Scotland being fairly sparsely populated, especially in the north. If Scotland were to leave the UK, we'd be comparable to one great big sprawling city state, with the few bits of farmland basically being the parks.

holwellcourtfarm · Oct 10, 2021

ajd132 said:
But there is balance which many are beginning to find. You still meet people who are putting multiple insecticides on flea beetle and still losing crops. It doesn’t work and it’s just complete lunacy.

And following the "3, 8 and 13 week" cattle worming advice of the inputs industry without thinking about why their regime suits the pest lifecycle....

holwellcourtfarm · Oct 10, 2021

dowcow said:
one great big sprawling city state, with the few bits of farmland basically being the parks.

You've visited the South East then....

ajd132 · Oct 10, 2021

holwellcourtfarm said:
And following the "3, 8 and 13 week" cattle worming advice of the inputs industry without thinking about why their regime suits the pest lifecycle....

I use chemicals, but we’re trying to learn how to use less. I’m not an eco warrior I run a business and can see the 70’s 80’s 90’s methods of reliance on buying in inputs is a hamster wheel that we are desperately trying to stay on but the toolkit is dwindling mainly from resistance and partly down to legislation.
I won’t demonise what has been done in the past as this business was built upon it, it’s just the ongoing evolution of agriculture as has always happend.

bluebell · Oct 10, 2021

is that area 281 people per km2 average across the total area of the UK ? which i think it is, that answers all the points ive made on here over the years with the southeast of england and my area and many others, that have seen population growth and thus development over double in the last 20 years? and if future housing forecasts in my area made up to 2034 double nearly again ? any fool can see thats the main reason thats driving all forms of loss, from increased pollution in rivers to general loss of land to development?

dowcow · Oct 10, 2021

holwellcourtfarm said:
You've visited the South East then....

I've flown over the country on a clear night too, and its nearly all built up and lit up.

thesilentone · Oct 10, 2021

Some great points, and facts, the ploughable hectares and people per sq/km are two key points.

The elephant in the room is people numbers, and until we relate these figures globally to what the CO2 footprint per person is/per Country, and what numbers are sustainable long-term we're flogging a dead horse.

People will need to be distributed globally to balance out and ensure the human footprints are spread according to basic life support resources, and I don't mean free houses, NHS and social support.

The whole thing is all rather pointless with a World population growth of around 100,000,000 per year, the end game is inevitable unless this is addressed, we will consume this planets resources.

So, if Greta Thunberg, Extinction Rebellion, Insulation Rebellion (idiots) and all the other campaigners want immediate action, simple, stop everyone breeding !!

In my view, you should not be allowed to have children unless you can provide proof of means to support them for at least 18 years - Tin hat firmly on !

ajd132 · Oct 10, 2021

Just seen this in the farmers weekly letters. Now irrelevant of the actual ploughing/direct drilling argument, surely this attitude is pathetic?
I fell of my bike in 1979 so never ridden one again.

Castle Farm · Oct 10, 2021

I wish the UK farmer could be in a position to withhold all food products for a week. Mass panic and looting. Riots in the streets.No food on the shelves.

Y Fan Wen · Oct 10, 2021

bluebell said:
is that area 281 people per km2 average across the total area of the UK ? which i think it is, that answers all the points ive made on here over the years with the southeast of england and my area and many others, that have seen population growth and thus development over double in the last 20 years? and if future housing forecasts in my area made up to 2034 double nearly again ? any fool can see thats the main reason thats driving all forms of loss, from increased pollution in rivers to general loss of land to development?

Google says England is 426 per km2.

7610 super q · Oct 10, 2021

ajd132 said:
View attachment 990393
Just seen this in the farmers weekly letters. Now irrelevant of the actual ploughing/direct drilling argument, surely this attitude is pathetic?
I fell of my bike in 1979 so never ridden one again.

Cool dude. Glad there's still a few decent farmers about.

Derrick Hughes · Oct 10, 2021

7610 super q said:
Cool dude. Glad there's still a few decent farmers about.

I think a decent farmer is an opened minded farmer , and just because he shoots a few less bullets at nature he does not think he's some kind of preaching god , even a plough is a bullet where nature is concerned

7610 super q · Oct 10, 2021

Derrick Hughes said:
I think a decent farmer is an opened minded farmer , and just because he shoots a few less bullets at nature he does not think he's some kind of preaching god , even a plough is a bullet where nature us concerned

I was kinda joking. But the chap had a go at it. It didn't work. How many times do you try it and fail ?
Each to there own, a place for all methods. To call someone else's methods " pathetic " seems childish to me though.

Derrick Hughes · Oct 10, 2021

7610 super q said:
I was kinda joking. But the chap had a go at it. It didn't work. How many times do you try it and fail ?
Each to there own, a place for all methods. To call someone else's methods " pathetic " seems childish to me though.

If we talking plough v direct drill , not sure if we are , probably about even , but all that would be weather related , when you sow seed you can't always get the weather right ,

ajd132 · Oct 10, 2021

7610 super q said:
I was kinda joking. But the chap had a go at it. It didn't work. How many times do you try it and fail ?
Each to there own, a place for all methods. To call someone else's methods " pathetic " seems childish to me though.

Still dismissing something from 42 years ago is pathetic. There’s hundreds of not thousands of farmers who have gained masses of knowledge in that time and are making it work.

Another nail in to the coffin of UK agriculture?

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Never Forgotten

Member

Never Forgotten

Member

Member

0 %

Up to 25%

25-50%

50-75%

75-100%

100% I’ve had enough of farming!

Share this page