Methane

I can't remember if this was posted before. It is the feedback from Myles Allen to the EU methane strategy. Note the last paragraph:

Having decided to aim for climate neutrality, Europe has a simple choice: to define climate neutrality in terms of metric-equivalent emissions (which also means deciding which metric to use, also not pre-determined by the metric used for reporting), or in terms of warming-equivalent emissions. This should be an open and public discussion, because the implications, particularly for agriculture, are profound. Achieving climate neutrality in terms of metric-equivalent emissions could mean eliminating practices, such as ruminant agriculture, that are not actually causing global warming. Warming-equivalent emissions resolve this problem.

 

holwellcourtfarm

Member
Livestock Farmer
Here is a neat summary of the ipcc chapter 7 findings about methane.

AHDB must just be a touch slow getting their version of that out......

At least NZ has recognised that methane needs treating differently, unlike the UK government.
 

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
AHDB must just be a touch slow getting their version of that out......

At least NZ has recognised that methane needs treating differently, unlike the UK government.
NZ Ag may have, but not NZ government, they're deliberately not seeing what is in front of them because they fell so hard for the "LIVESTOCK BAD" narrative

However at least it's increasingly obvious just how hopeless they are, so things may change

we just have to keep beating the drum and highlighting what can be done about issues
 

WEBINAR: Pathway to Regeneration with Phil Gregory​

An Astrophysicist's Journey into Food, Health, Climate, and Complexity​

2nd of October 2021, 7:30 -- 9:00 PM London​

Registration Link

IMG_9028 2.jpg
 

holwellcourtfarm

Member
Livestock Farmer
I constantly think we should be driving home the point that policy is being driven by a surrogate measure when we have a true one to hand. The video almost made that point but not quite.

The target is to avoid 2°C warming yet we are using emissions as our measure rather than warming potential.

it's irrational.

(Just like the use of cholesterol as a measure of cardiac health when we should compare CVD death rates).
 
Still doesn't solve the huge unknown source of methane that scientists still can't explain. But in all likelihood is coming from the ever depleting permafrost. Which in a bizarre twist can be retained through large ruminant grazing, which clears and cools land.

Methane is caused by fermentation and the decomposition of organic matter in conditions where oxygen is not present. Given the vast areas of natural wetlands and rice paddies and flood plains etc then it is no surprise to me that methane is appearing.

It also emerges from some lake beds and the like in quantities.

But methane isn't the only super greenhouse gas about.
 

holwellcourtfarm

Member
Livestock Farmer
The only way to totally do away with methane emissions in ruminants is to feed them antibiotics or bacteriostats and feed them on a grain diet basically.
And look where such thinking had got us with arable crops!

Crashing soil health
Falling nutrient density
Biodiversity loss
Huge inputs industry profits
 

sjt01

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
North Norfolk
Methane is caused by fermentation and the decomposition of organic matter in conditions where oxygen is not present. Given the vast areas of natural wetlands and rice paddies and flood plains etc then it is no surprise to me that methane is appearing.

It also emerges from some lake beds and the like in quantities.

But methane isn't the only super greenhouse gas about.
It also comes from escapes from natural gas wells and pipelines. From what I remember from the video below, they reckon about 5% lost to atmosphere.
 
And look where such thinking had got us with arable crops!

Crashing soil health
Falling nutrient density
Biodiversity loss
Huge inputs industry profits

Soil health- a ridiculous thing to be concerned about really. If you are taking land and then growing a monoculture on it, what else did we expect?

Falling nutrient density- that is the food chain's entire fault, not that of farmers. Farmers today are growing what the market tells them it wants. If consumers are complaining food is tasteless and standardised or nutrient poor then they need to point the finger at someone other than farmers. If people demanded a pig with 2 inches of fat all over the carcass, farmers could easily produce one but processors and retailers don't want it.

Biodiversity loss- stop doing so much farming, leave more land as wilderness. The acid test is- if a given area of land isn't economic to farm in a way that leaves it maintained and in the same shape you started with, you need to stop farming it. Unfortunately we have a situation where people will farm land regardless for a variety of factors that are as unique the people concerned.

Huge input industry profits- I agree, but no one is forcing anyone to use these inputs, and in many parts of the world they aren't economic and won't ever be used. Only in Europe did such addiction to inputs ever make sense and the reason for this? Subsidies.
 

Top Tip.

Member
Location
highland
Soil health- a ridiculous thing to be concerned about really. If you are taking land and then growing a monoculture on it, what else did we expect?

Falling nutrient density- that is the food chain's entire fault, not that of farmers. Farmers today are growing what the market tells them it wants. If consumers are complaining food is tasteless and standardised or nutrient poor then they need to point the finger at someone other than farmers. If people demanded a pig with 2 inches of fat all over the carcass, farmers could easily produce one but processors and retailers don't want it.

Biodiversity loss- stop doing so much farming, leave more land as wilderness. The acid test is- if a given area of land isn't economic to farm in a way that leaves it maintained and in the same shape you started with, you need to stop farming it. Unfortunately we have a situation where people will farm land regardless for a variety of factors that are as unique the people concerned.

Huge input industry profits- I agree, but no one is forcing anyone to use these inputs, and in many parts of the world they aren't economic and won't ever be used. Only in Europe did such addiction to inputs ever make sense and the reason for this? Subsidies.
I don’t agree,the reason there are so many inputs used in Europe is that we are working in a temperate climate where the use of these inputs gives you an almost guaranteed return on your investment unlike other parts of the world where the weather is far more fickle and there is no such guarantee of a crop.
 

holwellcourtfarm

Member
Livestock Farmer
I don’t agree,the reason there are so many inputs used in Europe is that we are working in a temperate climate where the use of these inputs gives you an almost guaranteed return on your investment unlike other parts of the world where the weather is far more fickle and there is no such guarantee of a crop.
Not to mention that all of our agricultural education institutions have taught little else but rising inputs (to chase higher output) for decades....
 
1634305937458.png

1634306100784.png

From this article.

Although it doesn't discuss GWP100 vs GWP*, it does discuss the validity of LCAs for plant products (which are overall much more incomplete datasets than animal products). And also adds an important element to the conversation around nutrient density, and crucially the bio-availability of nutrients in livestock vs plant products.
 

beardface

Member
Location
East Yorkshire
Methane is caused by fermentation and the decomposition of organic matter in conditions where oxygen is not present. Given the vast areas of natural wetlands and rice paddies and flood plains etc then it is no surprise to me that methane is appearing.

It also emerges from some lake beds and the like in quantities.

But methane isn't the only super greenhouse gas about.

There's an incredible amount of methane created through rice production, but its a 'green' food so we don't get to hear about that.....
 

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

  • 0 %

    Votes: 80 42.3%
  • Up to 25%

    Votes: 66 34.9%
  • 25-50%

    Votes: 30 15.9%
  • 50-75%

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 75-100%

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 100% I’ve had enough of farming!

    Votes: 7 3.7%

Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

  • 1,292
  • 1
As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
Top