"Improving Our Lot" - Planned Holistic Grazing, for starters..

Crofter64

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Quebec, Canada
you were right, ordered, didn't like the price, but hope it's worth it.
another newman writes books about health, newnan turner on soil etc, the other obviously likes trying to cure back pain, very nearly ordered 1 of them, l have arthritis and scar tissue in my spine, and allegedly nothing more can be done, but you never know ...............................
Its the same newman turner. He left farming and went into some kind of healing profession.
 

Jonny B88

Member
Location
ballykelly. NI
A wee update on how our cover crops are looking. First the stubble after ww. Sown on the 25th of august.

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quite patchy, has struck well in some places and not so well in other. There is germinated plants mostly all over but they aren’t all grown out much yet. My feelings are we were just to late getting the seed into the ground, a month earlier would have made a big difference I think. So instead of grazing through winter, we will let in grow into spring and either graze in spring or leave to grow until summer, see how it goes basically.
 

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Jonny B88

Member
Location
ballykelly. NI
And from the ambitious attempt, not quite a complete failure but not fantastic. The main success has been the vetch which seems to have struck well, was looking yellowish a few weeks ago and i felt that it would disappear like the rape and turnips did but it seems to have powered on. Not sure if some clover plants have taken aswell or not I’m not 100% sure on identifying outside of white clover. Interestingly there is a few defined lines of vetch aswell.

again delayed sowing definitely affected its chances, the seed sadly was delayed in coming so we could do nothing. Perhaps next time i will try a little glyphosate, whether half or full rate and see if that works and try and drill as soon as hay/silage is lifted.

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hendrebc

Member
Livestock Farmer

Fenwick

Member
Location
Bretagne France
I do not think organic farming, is the answer, lot's of good ideas there, but to much reliance on diesel, to be the solution, all grazing farms, slightly different. To achieve the result, all parts of ag, need to work together, to find the solutions, the present organic 'weed' control, is ploughing and stale seed beds, ploughing and cultivating, release soil stored carbon, back into the atmosphere.

My mate JC would disagree.

 

som farmer

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
somerset
And from the ambitious attempt, not quite a complete failure but not fantastic. The main success has been the vetch which seems to have struck well, was looking yellowish a few weeks ago and i felt that it would disappear like the rape and turnips did but it seems to have powered on. Not sure if some clover plants have taken aswell or not I’m not 100% sure on identifying outside of white clover. Interestingly there is a few defined lines of vetch aswell.

again delayed sowing definitely affected its chances, the seed sadly was delayed in coming so we could do nothing. Perhaps next time i will try a little glyphosate, whether half or full rate and see if that works and try and drill as soon as hay/silage is lifted.

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we tried vetch in a grazing ley, rotational grazed, summed up as, it grew, it got eaten, it went. With our rye for a silage crop, fantastic, so for us, the jury is out.
Friends came out for lunch today, went for the customary drive around, we have oceans of grass, total opposite to last year. What it means, is wooly maggots needed. Just going into peak calving, and cows are pretty well on a full ration, the 50 spring/odd cows, are certainly not able to cope with the amount out there. Cut 35 acres, 18 still to bail, the ########weather forecast, got it wrong, again. But grass is still growing well, seen in between the rows.
 

som farmer

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
somerset
My mate JC would disagree.

our organic neighbours, always seem to be ploughing ground up, working for stale seed beds, green manure etc, and probably do a good job. But, if we look at it from an environmental point of view, all that heavy machinery, pounding the ground down, and all that continuous tilling, cannot be good for the soil structure, or it's fauna, let alone the amount of fuel used, my wider definition of organic, is no chemical imputs, and better for the environment, pretty continuous tilling/ploughing, is releasing any carbon captured, plus adding no soil fauna, or structure, to me, that seems to miss the principle of organics. The fields adjacent to us, are being ploughed, for the second time this year, first time, they worked it 4 or 5 times, before drilling, very nescessary for weed control, but.
The other point l disagree with, is, everytime l grow greens, in the garden, bloody slugs and caterpillars, make mincemeat of them, unless l spray, and yet, fields of unblemished cabbages, cauli's etc, just don't get it.
 

Fenwick

Member
Location
Bretagne France
our organic neighbours, always seem to be ploughing ground up, working for stale seed beds, green manure etc, and probably do a good job. But, if we look at it from an environmental point of view, all that heavy machinery, pounding the ground down, and all that continuous tilling, cannot be good for the soil structure, or it's fauna, let alone the amount of fuel used, my wider definition of organic, is no chemical imputs, and better for the environment, pretty continuous tilling/ploughing, is releasing any carbon captured, plus adding no soil fauna, or structure, to me, that seems to miss the principle of organics. The fields adjacent to us, are being ploughed, for the second time this year, first time, they worked it 4 or 5 times, before drilling, very nescessary for weed control, but.
The other point l disagree with, is, everytime l grow greens, in the garden, bloody slugs and caterpillars, make mincemeat of them, unless l spray, and yet, fields of unblemished cabbages, cauli's etc, just don't get it.

just be careful not to think that your organic neighbours are how all organic farming works. well not any more than my conventional dairy neighbour is an example of how you work. 😉
 

Ffermer Bach

Member
Livestock Farmer
our organic neighbours, always seem to be ploughing ground up, working for stale seed beds, green manure etc, and probably do a good job. But, if we look at it from an environmental point of view, all that heavy machinery, pounding the ground down, and all that continuous tilling, cannot be good for the soil structure, or it's fauna, let alone the amount of fuel used, my wider definition of organic, is no chemical imputs, and better for the environment, pretty continuous tilling/ploughing, is releasing any carbon captured, plus adding no soil fauna, or structure, to me, that seems to miss the principle of organics. The fields adjacent to us, are being ploughed, for the second time this year, first time, they worked it 4 or 5 times, before drilling, very nescessary for weed control, but.
The other point l disagree with, is, everytime l grow greens, in the garden, bloody slugs and caterpillars, make mincemeat of them, unless l spray, and yet, fields of unblemished cabbages, cauli's etc, just don't get it.
I agree, my one bone I have to pick with the organic standards, is, the only way to reseed is plough, which is terrible for both soil organic matter and fungi/bacteria balance in the soil, however burning off (with chemicals) and direct drilling is against the rules, so productive organic farmers are caught between a rock and a hard place.
 

som farmer

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
somerset
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A bit of evidence to show how dry we are, the stream was as near as dry yesterday, torrential rain over night, local flooding, and we are cutting maize right now. Will admit, l thought it was to wet to go, but son thought otherwise, looks like he was right, and l was wrong. Just to show off, the maize, followed this crop of rye/vetch, rye/vetch was cut 28th may, maize drilled 8th june, pleased as punch with it. And it equates to over 30tons acre fresh weight.
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Samcowman

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Cornwall
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A bit of evidence to show how dry we are, the stream was as near as dry yesterday, torrential rain over night, local flooding, and we are cutting maize right now. Will admit, l thought it was to wet to go, but son thought otherwise, looks like he was right, and l was wrong. Just to show off, the maize, followed this crop of rye/vetch, rye/vetch was cut 28th may, maize drilled 8th june, pleased as punch with it. And it equates to over 30tons acre fresh weight.View attachment 992644
What was the feed value of the rye and vetch in the end when fed? Do you know the cost/tonne of getting it into the clamp. Does look a good crop.
 

Fenwick

Member
Location
Bretagne France
View attachment 992642View attachment 992643
A bit of evidence to show how dry we are, the stream was as near as dry yesterday, torrential rain over night, local flooding, and we are cutting maize right now. Will admit, l thought it was to wet to go, but son thought otherwise, looks like he was right, and l was wrong. Just to show off, the maize, followed this crop of rye/vetch, rye/vetch was cut 28th may, maize drilled 8th june, pleased as punch with it. And it equates to over 30tons acre fresh weight.View attachment 992644

looks lovely that rye and vetch! 👍

I agree, my one bone I have to pick with the organic standards, is, the only way to reseed is plough

the thing i love about this thread is and hollistic management as a whole, is that it helps to see things in a different way.

Perhaps the problem here isn't the 'plough' but the 'reseed'.


(but just so you know, you don't have to plough😉 ).
 

som farmer

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
somerset
What was the feed value of the rye and vetch in the end when fed? Do you know the cost/tonne of getting it into the clamp. Does look a good crop.
we have to wait a bit for analysis, the one we took, was very wrong, and now, we have to wait till we get to it, in the pit, awful lot of grass on top !
rye seed was about £700/t and put in at 80kg/acre, l cant remember the vetch seed, so plough, combi drill, and 50kg acre of 34.5N. Our contractor said 15t/ac for rye, and 18t/ac for maize, his figures, not ours.
Not repeating this year, as rye really needs to go in, in sept, we didn't think our maize would be fit by now, so winter wheat, instead, but, as long as it analysis ok, will be back on, next year.
Apart from the seed, it's a really cheap crop to grow, rye scavenges any spare N, in theory, the vetch should leave some N for the following crop, kale, then s barley, well that's the plan, at the moment, looks quite a sensible rotation. Maize, rye, maize is just to tight a timescale.
Having just read @Fenwick post, as long as we get another 2 dry days, we hope to min-til the wheat, if not, the dreaded plough.
 

Samcowman

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Cornwall
we have to wait a bit for analysis, the one we took, was very wrong, and now, we have to wait till we get to it, in the pit, awful lot of grass on top !
rye seed was about £700/t and put in at 80kg/acre, l cant remember the vetch seed, so plough, combi drill, and 50kg acre of 34.5N. Our contractor said 15t/ac for rye, and 18t/ac for maize, his figures, not ours.
Not repeating this year, as rye really needs to go in, in sept, we didn't think our maize would be fit by now, so winter wheat, instead, but, as long as it analysis ok, will be back on, next year.
Apart from the seed, it's a really cheap crop to grow, rye scavenges any spare N, in theory, the vetch should leave some N for the following crop, kale, then s barley, well that's the plan, at the moment, looks quite a sensible rotation. Maize, rye, maize is just to tight a timescale.
Having just read @Fenwick post, as long as we get another 2 dry days, we hope to min-til the wheat, if not, the dreaded plough.

Just looked it up in Cotswold Seeds £££££. Westerwolds looks much cheaper but probably wouldn’t get the bulk but maybe higher quality. I am looking at options for planting next autumn for some guaranteed silage cut the next spring. May just go for Italian and red. For grazing after as well.
 

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
Settling in for the beginning of a 3-day Landmark Forum online.... went for a look at the place in daylight
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with the amount of growth we're doing whatever the opposite of untoward acceleration is... needing to slow down to ensure good utilisation...

I'm considering consolidating mobs over mating (run 2 mobs of 45 vs 3 mobs of 30) and getting the cows over here too. Bulls arriving Wednesday.
Currently stocked at 4/ha but by bringing the cows over, it would bump us up to a little under 6/ha - that could be a good thing...
 

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

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Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

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As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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