COVID vax for kids

Highland Mule

Member
Livestock Farmer
At the minute I am not prepared to risk my children’s health until the vaccine has had longer trials.
I presume you know and fully understand the relative risks to your child from both Covid and the vaccine before you can make such a statement.

Which part of the CMOs’ published position do you disagree with, to take such a contrary position?


If children start to get seriously ill with COVID my position might change.

They are - as is stated in the CMO’s position.

 
I presume you know and fully understand the relative risks to your child from both Covid and the vaccine before you can make such a statement.

Which part of the CMOs’ published position do you disagree with, to take such a contrary position?




They are - as is stated in the CMO’s position.

I wouldn’t see it as contrary. Quite simply I’m not sure I trust the CMO
 

HatsOff

Member
Mixed Farmer
At the minute I am not prepared to risk my children’s health until the vaccine has had longer trials.If children start to get seriously ill with COVID my position might change.

Just as information, the technology used in the mRNA vaccines (Pfizer et al) was developed for a SARS and MERS vaccine, going back quite a few years. It's why the COVID-19 vaccines were able to be produced so rapidly, especially the MERS research. Also, there isn't really any realistic mechanism for long term effects that I am aware of - once the body has cleared (and learnt) the vaccine antigens, things return to normal.
 

essex man

Member
Location
colchester
Just as information, the technology used in the mRNA vaccines (Pfizer et al) was developed for a SARS and MERS vaccine, going back quite a few years. It's why the COVID-19 vaccines were able to be produced so rapidly, especially the MERS research. Also, there isn't really any realistic mechanism for long term effects that I am aware of - once the body has cleared (and learnt) the vaccine antigens, things return to normal.
What about permanent vascular damage from mRNA causing spike protein production in capillary linings?
 

Mouser

Member
Location
near Belfast
Just as information, the technology used in the mRNA vaccines (Pfizer et al) was developed for a SARS and MERS vaccine, going back quite a few years. It's why the COVID-19 vaccines were able to be produced so rapidly, especially the MERS research. Also, there isn't really any realistic mechanism for long term effects that I am aware of - once the body has cleared (and learnt) the vaccine antigens, things return to normal.
How long does take to 'clear the body'?
 

Mouser

Member
Location
near Belfast
I presume you know and fully understand the relative risks to your child from both Covid and the vaccine before you can make such a statement.

Which part of the CMOs’ published position do you disagree with, to take such a contrary position?




They are - as is stated in the CMO’s position.

Following the advice of the jcvi is contrary now?
How could anyone know with any certainty the risks of either? Everyone is learning on the job and will be for years.
 

essex man

Member
Location
colchester
Just as information, the technology used in the mRNA vaccines (Pfizer et al) was developed for a SARS and MERS vaccine, going back quite a few years. It's why the COVID-19 vaccines were able to be produced so rapidly, especially the MERS research. Also, there isn't really any realistic mechanism for long term effects that I am aware of - once the body has cleared (and learnt) the vaccine antigens, things return to normal.
myocarditis?
 

essex man

Member
Location
colchester
.
 

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HatsOff

Member
Mixed Farmer
How long does take to 'clear the body'?
The immune response can take few weeks to fully complete, so any adverse reaction should occur in a matter of weeks.
What about permanent vascular damage from mRNA causing spike protein production in capillary linings?

myocarditis?
Yes - if that does occur, it is within days/weeks of vaccination.

It's worth saying that even in the young, whatever the risk presented from the vaccine, the risk of harm is greater from the actual virus due to a higher viral load (edit - not great phrasing there - obviously there is no viral load from a vaccine)
 
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essex man

Member
Location
colchester
The immune response can take few weeks to fully complete, so any adverse reaction should occur in a matter of weeks.



Yes - if that does occur, it is within days/weeks of vaccination.

It's worth saying that even in the young, whatever the risk presented from the vaccine, the risk of harm is greater from the actual virus due to a higher viral load (edit - not great phrasing there - obviously there is no viral load from a vaccine)
how are you accessing the long term risks of the vaccine in that equation?
 

HatsOff

Member
Mixed Farmer
how are you accessing the long term risks of the vaccine in that equation?
I'm not assessing anything - that is for the MHRA. My earlier post was just to raise the point that mRNA vaccines (for SARS and MERS) have been in development for many years, so presumably long term effects (in the order of years) will have been observed.

The side effects that are known about, and you raised those, occur quite rapidly after the vaccine has been administered.
 

Highland Mule

Member
Livestock Farmer
I wouldn’t see it as contrary. Quite simply I’m not sure I trust the CMO
Following the advice of the jcvi is contrary now?
How could anyone know with any certainty the risks of either? Everyone is learning on the job and will be for years.

Have you read the link I put up?

JCVI is clear in it that the risk is higher if they don't take the vaccine than if they do. They do recognise that the delta is not huge, and would not be compelling enough on its own to justify a mass campaign on purely medical grounds. CMO advice includes all aspects of child health, not just the pure medical ones, and conclude that a campaign is worthwhile. None of JCVI or CMO consider that risk is higher with vaccines, as @boumaticboy implies - hence my stating that his position is contrary.
 
Have you read the link I put up?

JCVI is clear in it that the risk is higher if they don't take the vaccine than if they do. They do recognise that the delta is not huge, and would not be compelling enough on its own to justify a mass campaign on purely medical grounds. CMO advice includes all aspects of child health, not just the pure medical ones, and conclude that a campaign is worthwhile. None of JCVI or CMO consider that risk is higher with vaccines, as @boumaticboy implies - hence my stating that his position is contrary.
👍your entitled to your opinion as is agrarian as i am too
 

essex man

Member
Location
colchester
I'm not assessing anything - that is for the MHRA. My earlier post was just to raise the point that mRNA vaccines (for SARS and MERS) have been in development for many years, so presumably long term effects (in the order of years) will have been observed.

The side effects that are known about, and you raised those, occur quite rapidly after the vaccine has been administered.
no mrna vaccines have been used prior to covid
no trials, no long term data.
the duration of myocarditis from vaccine is unknown.
the trial is going on now in millions of people
 

essex man

Member
Location
colchester
it's clear that short term and long term effects of vaccine were and are unknown, the constant changes to age recommendations and differences country to country are evidence of lack of understanding and politically based decision making. i see today sweden has extended it's suspension of use of moderna vaccine for under 30s
 

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