For those farming less than 200 acres.

Dave645 said:

The lack of options in the old ELS scheme, is not relevant, my post is about but the way it was implemented under points, the options and type of options under this new scheme could be totaly different and offer you far more options on your farm.
But knowing from the get go that your application is good based on a target points total.

so rather than saying it’s £20/100m2 for say a margin they say it’s 200 points.
I also believe a whole farm approach will deliver better results for them.
They say the pot of money is the same size, so if the level of payments can be the same as now then I expect they hope for most users to apply for whole farm applications.
ELS was I think, 30 points per HA as the target, that only got a fraction of the farming payment so at a guess there is either going to be a sliding target so 1-100 points per HA over your farm delivers a sliding scale of money upto and over the standards rate for the outgoing subsidy.
I say over as some farmers got more money than the standard payments under the extra environmental schemes.

so we get a simple points system it’s up to you what items to use and the payments are simple to calculate, they are based on points per HA and your farm size.
All they need to do is work out from a few farms what items are worth what points, if the target is to deliver the same level of funding to the industry as before, then as that’s a set amount of money they need to sit down with those 1000 beta testers and set options at levels that give the users a fighting chance of having scheme options and hitting a points total that delivers that amount of money. Without the options costing more money than they receive in benefits.
The old ELS had hedges, margins, low input,( as you said) fallow, etc.
But I would expect the new goals in the scheme in beta now would be there, and points totals for options high in there priority list have hefty points totals, to encourage farmers to do them.

Let’s face it some farms are going to be simpler to get the points from than others, if you have a farm with lots of hedges, trees, woodland, margins, water courses, etc then getting points is easy, which is to be expected, as the scheme is to encourage this then, it should also reward its existence. While encouraging more to be added, what has been broken in some of the schemes is the lack of reward for having a what they class as a good farm with hedges etc, and only doling money out to farmers adding back new stuff any new scheme has to do both, provide a way to add more and reward those that have it, capital grants help there, with rewards for promised actions if they are delivered on time.

so your short of points. . . They offer capital grants to help you install new items like hedges, they cover the cost of the hedge plants etc but not the Labour, but they do give you an advance on the points so if you plant the hedge in say that scheme year, as promised then you had an advanced payment in the first year before you actually planted the hedge to cover its install, So while that hedge in the first year cost you your time, it paid you in points it deliver even before you planted it, after that if you fail to plant the hedge then the points are deducted, and the capital grant money maybe withheld from future payments, until you plant that hedge.
Carrot and stick.

so while capital grants only cover material costs, the pre payment in points covers your Labour, after that the new hedge earns you the points and the money the points give.

I would also add that capital grants etc should be open in every scheme year so farmers can improve and change there points total. Only farmers wishing to change there points total, options, or start a new capital grant option, has the application to re submit. We had agreements that lasted a number of years I would suggest that some scheme options may have set contract times where others are more flexible, so say fallow etc is annual but a big points item green bridges etc have 5-10 year agreements on them.
with a fluid system farms can adjust as they see fit, if short term options are not working they can drop them and go for different ones, or drop them and there points completely. This would be on an annual declaration, have you changed options if so what, if not only a basic check is done if you have completed the capital work you applied for then the job is done.

I would possibly argue that including things like expensive mixes, for special cover crops is also in capital grants, so the upfront cost of options are removed, from the farmer, if the item needs annual reseeding then seed is provided every year. The points the option delivers covers the land lost to the option. Not it’s ongoing seeding cost, so the money it makes as an option, is clear.

Click to expand...

delilah said:

As a follow up to the OP then, ie for those farming less than 200 acres:

1) Were you offered the opportunity to be a pilot ?
2) Have you accepted ?
3) Are you taking the £5k to take part in 'up to 15 hours a month' of 'learning activity' ?

Click to expand...

delilah said:

As a follow up to the OP then, ie for those farming less than 200 acres:

1) Were you offered the opportunity to be a pilot ?
2) Have you accepted ?
3) Are you taking the £5k to take part in 'up to 15 hours a month' of 'learning activity' ?

Click to expand...

holwellcourtfarm said:

An interesting concept (I didn't mean to disagree with your idea, just to point out that ELS didn't work for ALL farms).

The problem I see with your post is that there ISN'T an intention for the same money to keep going into farming. 70% is aimed at Local Nature Recovery and Landscape Recovery. These will only apply to a proportion of farms and a significant chunk could week end up in charity and NGO pockets.

Click to expand...

topground said:

No. Because the contract offered is open ended in favour of DEFRA and there is no equality in dispute resolution between the two parties. The terms of the contract are not clear or the payments on offer and I don’t trust DEFRA or their agents not to screw me over.

Click to expand...

teslacoils said:

And this is why they won't get the 70 percent. Can someone tag the DEFRA person who kindly puts her head over the parapet. I don't want to get into a bun flinging contest, but please read this and realise that there simply is no farmer trust - that by entering this, we could find the rules changed at their behest, and all manner of future govt madness put on us. I won't plant a wood as I believe there is likely to be a push for full public access to any "subsidised" land, or future schemes will require this as part of ab "environmental package".

Click to expand...

delilah said:

I could have put this on any of the ELMS threads, but it belongs on here so that folks farming 200 acres or less can decide how relevant it is to them.

https://defrafarming.blog.gov.uk/20...nd-extinction-the-farm-thats-showing-the-way/

Defra have been told quite clearly by Government that the first criteria upon which ELMS will be measured will be participation rate. Mention was made on some Government report that a 70% participation rate is required. The people designing ELMS need to take a long hard look at the whole thing.

Click to expand...

delilah said:

I could have put this on any of the ELMS threads, but it belongs on here so that folks farming 200 acres or less can decide how relevant it is to them.

https://defrafarming.blog.gov.uk/20...nd-extinction-the-farm-thats-showing-the-way/

Defra have been told quite clearly by Government that the first criteria upon which ELMS will be measured will be participation rate. Mention was made on some Government report that a 70% participation rate is required. The people designing ELMS need to take a long hard look at the whole thing.s

Click to expand...

delilah said:

Govt has consistently stated 70% of farming businesses.

Click to expand...

delilah said:

Govt has consistently stated 70% of farming businesses.

Click to expand...

Bossfarmer said:

Interesting so itll likely stay as is until 2025?

Click to expand...

Y Fan Wen said:

Tackling climate change and extinction - the farm that’s showing the way

Tackling climate change and extinction - the farm that’s showing the way Written by Merrick Denton-Thompson OBE, FLI Farmer Henry Edmunds walking among sainfoin Cholderton is a 1000-hectare estate on the Hampshire/Wiltshire border. It participated in one of Defra's environmental land...

thefarmingforum.co.uk

'Cholderton provides a template that thousands of other farms in the UK could copy. The result would be profitable farm systems which deliver secure, sustainably produced food in a countryside teeming with wildlife.'

There we are, job done.

Click to expand...

Y Fan Wen said:

I've just received the Winter Update from WG today. Their key milestones are:
BPS and Glastir to end December 2023
2022 Ag Bill introduced, publish outline Sustainable Farming Scheme along with economic analysis and impact assessments, introduce co-design phase 2
2023 final consultation on SFS and transition plan
2024 outreach- throughout 2024 we will engage with farmers to ensure we are ready to open the scheme in Jan 2025
2025 launch of SFS
So it seems we have to live on our fat for 24 and 25.

Click to expand...

delilah said:

I could have put this on any of the ELMS threads, but it belongs on here so that folks farming 200 acres or less can decide how relevant it is to them.

https://defrafarming.blog.gov.uk/20...nd-extinction-the-farm-thats-showing-the-way/

Defra have been told quite clearly by Government that the first criteria upon which ELMS will be measured will be participation rate. Mention was made on some Government report that a 70% participation rate is required. The people designing ELMS need to take a long hard look at the whole thing.

Click to expand...

ajcc said:

Credit Simon and Garfunkel.. ”a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest.”
That is the definition of a Defra consultation.

Click to expand...