Critical Mass

texelburger

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Herefordshire
To paraphrase some recent posts on here:
‘The EA staff aren’t what they were. Can’t even hang a gate properly.’
‘The vets aren’t what they were. I seem to know more than they do.’
‘The Defra staff aren’t what they were. Just don’t understand the practicalities.’
‘The Ag colleges aren’t what they were. Crying out for lecturers with practical experience.’

My late uncle worked for the EA, before that the NRA. He also had a farm. Not a big one, but big enough for him to keep his hand in and to pass on skills to my cousins should they wish to use them in later life. Through the centralist food system policies we have rigorously pursued in recent decades, we have managed to wipe out tens of thousands of such farms. The repercussions are everywhere. Less and less people have the skills and knowledge required to keep the countryside running.

There are people who will tell you that it doesn’t matter. That it is the free market at work. That skills die out because they are no longer needed. They are wrong. They should talk to my colleague working her socks off developing a business based on wool. A business that is all of a sudden highly relevant in a World waking up to the dangers of micro-plastics. She is having to train people from a standing start. All of the skills she needs are in the churchyard. Look at the work the RBST have done with breeds that were deemed no longer relevant but are now once again relevant. As it is with livestock, and seed varieties, so it is with skills.

ELMS as it stands is going to turbo charge the loss of critical mass in UK agriculture. Any individual, any organisation that sees the folly of this, needs to put whatever effort they can into getting Defra to see sense. Because if they don’t, there will be no-one left on the ground to deliver ‘public good’.
I can tell what is dying and that is common sense and practical aptitude.
 

Bury the Trash

Member
Mixed Farmer
I find young people soon acquire all the skills and knowledge they need and with the energy of youth do amazing things.
Yes if they are taught correctly. however if they arent or ignore what is said they are crap. ill get you a photo later of a young man and a hedgetrimmer (all the gear and no idea ) and how he has either been not told 'firmly' enough (by his employer) how to trim a hedge and not ruin it or he chooses not to listen, maybe hes just a low learner :unsure:

either way he ruins hedges atm.
 

down n'dirty

Member
Location
South Wales
I do wonder who is going to farm the land and produce the food the country needs, in years to come. The area in which I live has quite a few farmers approaching retirement age or even well past it, with no successors to follow on. In my own case and those of my immediate neighbours, our children have all decided to follow easier and more lucrative careers- and who can blame them when farming has been so poorly rewarded in recent years. For those of us who will remain,I think the tide is finally turning, as more and more land is taken out of production, the world population contiues to grow, fertiliser costs increase and our chemical armoury is continually being depleted. The years of a cheap and under appreciated food supply might finally be coming to an end- lets hope that there will be young farmers around who want and can afford to enter the industry, that can take advantage of it!
 

Lowland1

Member
Mixed Farmer
It is more a reflection of the age of TFF users - to older people nothing is like it was. In fact everything is pretty much the same except that so many people are younger and not just policemen. When we old lot shuffle off into retirement and let younger people get on with it everything will get better.
That’s the long and the short of. The average age of farmers gets older and they’ve failed to encourage younger people into the industry we’ve lost a generation for some reason. Younger people tend to have a more upbeat and positive attitude they think there is a future as they are looking forward whilst us older folk look backwards and remember the good bits and forget the bad.
 

Lowland1

Member
Mixed Farmer
Rubbish, speak for yourself.
In my experience of over 40 years in all that time its the realities of farming is why mainly they go to work elswhere.
I don’t think it is. Generally farmers are downbeat even when it’s going well. If farming has been so bad how come we are still here and we will be here in another hundred years. I’d encourage anyone to go into agriculture if you are any good you can make your way complaining that it’s not how it was is pointless you have to work in the present.
 

Bury the Trash

Member
Mixed Farmer
I don’t think it is. Generally farmers are downbeat even when it’s going well. If farming has been so bad how come we are still here and we will be here in another hundred years. I’d encourage anyone to go into agriculture if you are any good you can make your way complaining that it’s not how it was is pointless you have to work in the present.
Ime it never was any better ,ive always found it a massive challenge back then, in between and now.
but i love the work and the Countryside thats what has sustained my interest,so it seems that if you have that then yes anyone can stay the course.
as ive seen it Financial and mental challenge has always been fairly constant.
Physical working conditions and tech, machine differences well, these days are hugely different , for the better so no reason there at all , ....in comparison.
 

Lowland1

Member
Mixed Farmer
Ime it never was any better ,ive always found it a massive challenge back then, in between and now.
but i love the work and the Countryside thats what has sustained my interest,so it seems that if you have that then yes anyone can stay the course.
as ive seen it Financial and mental challenge has always been fairly constant.
Physical working conditions and tech, machine differences well, these days are hugely different , for the better so no reason there at all , ....in comparison.
I was having a discussion with a neighbour last week both of us started from sub 100 acre farms. He's farming over 2000 acres now and I'm growing a bit more overseas. We were discussing how many farmers around us (Lincolnshire) who had much better starts were no longer farming we both reckoned that having spent a childhood using a muckfork encourages you to move on whilst those whose parents could employ labour didn't have the same drive or love for what they were doing. I'm sure that people will disagree but from a personal point of view I saw people with new tractors and machinery and wanted the same.
 

Flatlander

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lorette Manitoba
How do they acquire the skills with no one to teach them?
Many farm skills only come later in life when finances dictate that you do the job yourself and succeed, until you have some skin in the game learning a new skill doesn’t seem so important, also helps if your as tight fisted enough not to want to pay another to do a job you think you can do yourself. Having an Older father growing up helped me see a few ways to skin the so called cat.
 

two-cylinder

Member
Location
Cambridge
A good many family farms are now simply working their notice period out, until being amalgamated into big local units.
The trouble coming- is that the big units will struggle to find labour, traditionally it came in the form of sons from the smaller farms.
I know of very few tractor drivers who came into the industry 'cold' having had no previous experience.
 

Bill the Bass

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Cumbria
To paraphrase some recent posts on here:
‘The EA staff aren’t what they were. Can’t even hang a gate properly.’
‘The vets aren’t what they were. I seem to know more than they do.’
‘The Defra staff aren’t what they were. Just don’t understand the practicalities.’
‘The Ag colleges aren’t what they were. Crying out for lecturers with practical experience.’

My late uncle worked for the EA, before that the NRA. He also had a farm. Not a big one, but big enough for him to keep his hand in and to pass on skills to my cousins should they wish to use them in later life. Through the centralist food system policies we have rigorously pursued in recent decades, we have managed to wipe out tens of thousands of such farms. The repercussions are everywhere. Less and less people have the skills and knowledge required to keep the countryside running.

There are people who will tell you that it doesn’t matter. That it is the free market at work. That skills die out because they are no longer needed. They are wrong. They should talk to my colleague working her socks off developing a business based on wool. A business that is all of a sudden highly relevant in a World waking up to the dangers of micro-plastics. She is having to train people from a standing start. All of the skills she needs are in the churchyard. Look at the work the RBST have done with breeds that were deemed no longer relevant but are now once again relevant. As it is with livestock, and seed varieties, so it is with skills.

ELMS as it stands is going to turbo charge the loss of critical mass in UK agriculture. Any individual, any organisation that sees the folly of this, needs to put whatever effort they can into getting Defra to see sense. Because if they don’t, there will be no-one left on the ground to deliver ‘public good’.
ELMS as it stands only has legs until 2024. The C£3bn funding for ‘agriculture’ only lasts the duration of this parliament. Does anyone honestly believe that the next government will spend £3bn a year on farmers after the great spaffing of money following COVID?

This is only the start of the changes and Defra have freely admitted they expect an exodus of farmers from the industry following their ‘Transition plan’. All the major political parties in this country are overwhelmingly Urban in their thinking, how else can it go?
 

Treg

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Cornwall
ELMS as it stands only has legs until 2024. The C£3bn funding for ‘agriculture’ only lasts the duration of this parliament. Does anyone honestly believe that the next government will spend £3bn a year on farmers after the great spaffing of money following COVID?

This is only the start of the changes and Defra have freely admitted they expect an exodus of farmers from the industry following their ‘Transition plan’. All the major political parties in this country are overwhelmingly Urban in their thinking, how else can it go?
Depends how hungry the country gets.
 

Bill the Bass

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Cumbria
Depends how hungry the country gets.
Won’t make any difference to what the OP is about, small family farms, particularly livestock ones are simply not wanted; not wanted by politicians, civil servants, planning authorities, animal welfare and environmental charities, the big four retailers, large landowners, the list goes on.
 

steveR

Member
Mixed Farmer
Won’t make any difference to what the OP is about, small family farms, particularly livestock ones are simply not wanted; not wanted by politicians, civil servants, planning authorities, animal welfare and environmental charities, the big four retailers, large landowners, the list goes on.
The "Miners" of the 2020s? :unsure:
 

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

  • 0 %

    Votes: 79 42.0%
  • Up to 25%

    Votes: 66 35.1%
  • 25-50%

    Votes: 30 16.0%
  • 50-75%

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 75-100%

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 100% I’ve had enough of farming!

    Votes: 7 3.7%

Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

  • 1,292
  • 1
As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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