Dispatches - Red Tractor

Bury the Trash · Nov 30, 2021

I'm not impressed with the Ea they have twice ignored my reporting of more than one households dirty water from their communal septic tank being discharged to the surface in the middle of our field ,which floods every now and then
So they cant be genuinely interested in dealing pollution.

wellingtonfarmer · Nov 30, 2021

ollie989898 said:
We don't get the winters we once did. Crops generally around here are growing on steady throughout the winter and I fully believe it is the application of manures in the autumn that keep them in good heart throughout this period.

If there is a serious issue with pollution from livestock manures in certain areas (not the entire country), then I would look at a scheme that puts the poultry litter into a powerstation and then return that as fibrophos type material which is a lot cheaper to transport and has zero smell or pollution risk.

However this would need to be done for odd areas, not entire counties or the like.

ea have rejected the idea of a power station fed off chicken muck on outskirts of Hereford.

JeepJeep · Nov 30, 2021

Bury the Trash said:
I'm not impressed with the Ea they have twice ignored my reporting of more than one households dirty water from their communal septic tank being discharged to the surface in the middle of our field ,which floods every now and then
So they cant be genuinely interested in dealing pollution.

Tell them there are 250K scrap tyres there... They'll be there as the kettle goes on tomorrow.

Bury the Trash · Nov 30, 2021

JeepJeep said:
Tell them there are 250K scrap tyres there... They'll be there as the kettle goes on tomorrow.

yes that would get them out i guess.
but I think i will callThe local press (farmers son is a journalist on it ) to come and take some pics and interview me. (that almost sounds a bit old fashioned now

)
asked them to come round and do a piece on it a few years ago but i cancelled as i was too busy.

its been going on for years

.

DrWazzock · Nov 30, 2021

Bury the Trash said:
yes that would get them out i guess.
but I think i will callThe local press (farmers son is a journalist on it ) to come and take some pics and interview me. (that almost sounds a bit old fashioned now )
asked them to come round and do a piece on it a few years ago but i cancelled as i was too busy.

its been going on for years .

I had the EA here going through my fertiliser records as the phosphates in the watercourse were high. Nothing to see in my records. I pointed out the dozen or so septic tank outlets that discharge straight into the watercourse upstream. Didn’t want to know. They’ll never upset members of the public. Wouldn’t look good. They and their political masters might lose public support.

DRC · Nov 30, 2021

These chickens that are killed at a very young age, is there any flavour in the meat?
must admit that we buy a free range chicken from butchers at £8 . We can afford it now a days and I realise many can’t , but we would rather eat a completely home grown veg meal or curry, than have this type of chicken in it.
I wouldn’t class it as farming livestock, more running a factory and you’d have to question the difference between this and some form of lab grown meat to be honest.
I know that’ll upset a few chicken shed guys, but it’s how I feel.

snarling bee · Nov 30, 2021

MrNoo said:
What way does RT limit or lessen these accidents? It doesnt, RT is more likely to drive someone to suicide than many other things on the farm. It's all fine for you in your Ivory Towers but the truth be told that RT is nothing but stress and nonsense, it would be I would say one of my most stressful periods of the farming year.
I left this year and glad I did but it has been shown that I cannot continue as I am, I will be forced to re-join your Cartel in order to be able to get my grain to market. This is a situation you the NFU support and is scandalous, our own so say farming Union shafting producers, WHY?????
Mutual renewal shortly but for the first time in 30 odd years I will not be renewing my insurance with them because I am so fecked off with the whole NFU narrative and support for Dead Tractor, some other company can have my £12k/year insurance money.
What will it actually take for the NFU to ACTUALLY SUPPORT Uk Agg????

Perhaps the H&S checking within RT will not save anybody's life, we will never know. So come on, how do YOU suggest we improve the dreadful toll we seem to be suffering with fatalities.

It is not my cartel, neither am I the NFU. I am just the only one silly enough to reply to the abuse the NFU seems to get on this forum. Do you really think an NFU council made up of about 100 farmers is endorsing policies that shaft producers?

I'm not sure what Ivory Towers you think I live in, but obviously you seem to be jealous or something. But 3 generations of hardwork, risktaking, investment and a bit of luck means I have a comfortable roof over my head. Grandad started the business in the 1920's by picking horse sh1t from the streets of London, sorry if that offends you. On my wife's side of the family her grandfather set up all of his 6 sons on a farm, again apologies for his hard work, thriftiness and acumen.

If you pay £12k in insurance then I am sure there are plenty in this world that think that YOU live in Ivory Towers, so perhaps you shouldn't throw stones.

On the insurance issue - I haven't insured with the Mutual for probably 10 years, if you haven't had competitive quotes and changed then don't take it out on me. The Mutual is NOT the same as the NFU.

SteveHants · Nov 30, 2021

Humble Village Farmer said:
Bollards

Whilst he may "have a right to", people will still view him in a professional context.

I know lots of people know what I do on here and therefore know that my personal viewpoint has professional implications.

That said, I do like to keep my students guessing about what I actually think and often argue from the opposite perspective because that's a much more valid learning exercise for them.

SteveHants · Nov 30, 2021

silverfox said:
These chickens that are killed at a very young age, is there any flavour in the meat?
must admit that we buy a free range chicken from butchers at £8 . We can afford it now a days and I realise many can’t , but we would rather eat a completely home grown veg meal or curry, than have this type of chicken in it.
I wouldn’t class it as farming livestock, more running a factory and you’d have to question the difference between this and some form of lab grown meat to be honest.
I know that’ll upset a few chicken shed guys, but it’s how I feel.

From an environmental perspective, they are extremely efficient (for a warm blooded animal) at converting feed to meat.
Slower growing breeds convert feed less effectively, require more feed inputs and therefore cost more environmentally as well as financially to produce.

snarling bee · Nov 30, 2021

DrWazzock said:
Very sorry to hear that. But consider the pressure and distraction the extra paperwork and inspection places on one man bands and people who can’t afford a consultant to sort out it all out for them.
And Health and safety inspections are a job for the Health and Safety Executive or inspectors and assessors trained in the specialist areas concerned. There is no way the RT inspector is qualified to perform such a role. I’ve already had highly dubious guidance on the matter from my RT inspector, saying I need written risk assessments in place. HSE says I don’t need them as I don’t employ anybody just myself. It’s obvious he hasn’t a clue about the subject but as usual it will tick the boxes and we will move on. He caused me 5 days of wasted work writing noddy guides that could have been spent actually checking machinery and doing essential maintenance.
And this goes to the heart of the RT problem. It’s obviously designed to suit corporate outfits with the administrative infrastructure to take up the additional bureaucratic work load. But myself and many other smaller farmers don’t work to that same model. But RT and the NFU have no understanding of that. It’s either conform to tge corporate model that we decide is the right one. or we will shut you down. Well some of us work to systems that are equally as safe and deliver a fine product but just don’t fit what RT sees as right. Grain temperature monitoring is another such area of difference. You don’t need a probe with a calibration certificate to tell you whether grain is too hot, unless maybe you have a massive store to monitor. It’s a ludicrous cost to a small grower in time and equipment.
I know nobody will understand. It’s hardly worth wasting time writing about it really. So we tick the boxes, make up some figures are allowed to carry on trading. What a joke.

There is no need to be sorry.
I'm sure your safe systems of work and common sense will get you through. Can you honestly say that everything you do is as safe as it can be for you and others. If doing the Noddy Guides makes you think about H&S for a minute or two then it may be worth it, you will never know what you might have saved yourself from. The amount of time you spend on this forum could be used to better effect on your own business (well that's what my OH tells me anyway).
I'm sure car MOTs, seatbelts and drink driving have all had criticism over the years by intelligent people such as yourself. Have you never done something a bit risky in the past and got away with it, well one day you might not. Perhaps you need to speak to my neighbour who is luckily still alive but is unable to walk, my mother in law who has been a widow for 15 years, or my daughters boyfriend's employer who was fined over £400,000.
PS Must go now to write my grain temperature records in the file, you won't catch me making them up! but at least I know that 2500 tonnes grain in my care, worth £500,000, is actually going be worth that, not spoiled by insects or mould. However you do with your crops what you see fit. Does a temperature probe really cost that much? Less than a ton of grain I suspect, and I'm sure it will last a year or two.

DrWazzock · Nov 30, 2021

snarling bee said:
There is no need to be sorry. I'm sure your safe systems of work and common sense will get you through. Can you honestly say that everything you do is as safe as it can be for you and others. If doing the Noddy Guides makes you think about H&S for a minute or two then it may be worth it, you will never know what you might have saved yourself from.
I'm sure car MOTs, seatbelts and drink driving have all had criticism over the years by intelligent people such as yourself. Have you never done something a bit risky in the past and got away with it, well one day you might not. Perhaps you need to speak to my neighbour who is luckily still alive but is unable to walk, my mother in law who has been a widow for 15 years, or my daughters boyfriend's employer who was fined over £400,000.
PS Must go now to write my grain temperature records in the file, you wont catch me making them up! but at least I know my 2500 tonnes grain worth £500,000 is actually going be worth that, not spoiled by insects or mould. You do with your crops what you see fit. Does a temperature probe really cost that much? Less than a ton of grain I suspect.

I’ll admit it did make me think about the risks to people who visit my premises and I’ve put a few signs up accordingly. They are largely ignored but I feel I’ve covered myself in the event of an accident. But as far as my day to day work goes there are so many possible risks they are too numerous to sensibly record. So for me H and S is an attitude. Before doing any job I’ll have a quick consideration of what might kill me if this or that were to happen. What if that tyre explodes? What if I were to drop that sheet of metal on that extension lead? What happens if that ladder slips along that smooth plastic spouting? I’m not going to return to the farmhouse to read a risk assessment, even if there’s was one to cover every scenario. I’ll fu d a safer way there and then on the spot.
Grain temperature monitoring. If it’s not steadily falling with ambient by now then it’s game over I’d suggest, but we can each do as we see fit.

Heathland · Nov 30, 2021

@snarling bee
While your checking and recording your temp records make sure your Mass stock balance is updated too

snarling bee · Nov 30, 2021

Heathland said:
@snarling bee
While your checking and recording your temp records make sure your Mass stock balance is updated too

I have been doing that as a matter of course for years anyway.
Of all the things in RT I cannot for the life of me see the problem with this other than giving away the information. How the F do you know how much you have in store or to sell if you are not regularly doing a mass balance. Do you just accept payment from merchants without checking? Have you any idea what you harvested? Don't you do a stocktake for YE accounts? Are your crops a major source of income? Do you count your cattle/sheep daily? Do you ever check your electric meter?
I just don't get it. Are you managing a business or not?

DrWazzock · Nov 30, 2021

At financial year end I work out the harvested total from grain merchants weighbridge weights and have an estimate of what’s still in my store. It’s not a “balance” it’s a total. I don’t weigh it in and out. Just out. Weighing in would be a waste of time and money in terms of time and equipment required. Been alright for 70 years here.

MrNoo · Nov 30, 2021

snarling bee said:
Perhaps the H&S checking within RT will not save anybody's life, we will never know. So come on, how do YOU suggest we improve the dreadful toll we seem to be suffering with fatalities.

It is not my cartel, neither am I the NFU. I am just the only one silly enough to reply to the abuse the NFU seems to get on this forum. Do you really think an NFU council made up of about 100 farmers is endorsing policies that shaft producers?

It has nothing to do with RT, but now you make it your business or RT's, yet another layer and the similar NFU line, job/scheme justification in the name of safety, where will it ever end??

How do you reckon it isnt a Cartel?? I have no market unless I pay to join, my milling wheat has been going for AD because I'm unwilling to pay a private company for market access, a part owned private company by the NFU

I know it beggers belief that you have 100 farmers who are perfectly happy to disadvantage UK producers through RT, it is abundantly clear that the 100 or so have zero control of the NFU instead tow the party line as nobody likes to rock the boat in fear of progression.

Re the Mutual, I am well aware that it is not the NFU but despite your protestations they are linked and I shall go to great lengths to explain my reasoning behind my leaving solely down to NFU's balls deep support of RT.

Regarding Ivory Towers, my meaning was those at the top who tend to sit and do sweet FA dictating to us like we're some thick straw chewing yokels, they seem to know what's best for us and if anyone dares to question the status quo gets labelled a La Blenkers as "backstabbers"

The longer the NFU continues this way of operating the more farmers they will alienate, not that I suspect it matters as I would think most of your members are non farmers now.

I will point out my dissatisfaction at any and every opportunity I get on any social media platform I can and I'm sure that many others will do the same, bit like a snowball that you push around the garden, it'll get bigger and bigger.

MrNoo · Nov 30, 2021

DrWazzock said:
At financial year end I work out the harvested total from grain merchants weighbridge weights and have an estimate of what’s still in my store. It’s not a “balance” it’s a total. I don’t weigh it in and out. Just out. Weighing in would be a waste of time and money in terms of time and equipment required. Been alright for 70 years here.

Heaven forbid, do you not have a weigh bridge??? That will be on the next set of RT regs/rules!! Christ we just count trailers in, total that and just sell when we feel like it, keep going until theres nowt left in the shed!

tullah · Nov 30, 2021

snarling bee said:
I have been doing that as a matter of course for years anyway.
Of all the things in RT I cannot for the life of me see the problem with this other than giving away the information. How the F do you know how much you have in store or to sell if you are not regularly doing a mass balance. Do you just accept payment from merchants without checking? Have you any idea what you harvested? Don't you do a stocktake for YE accounts? Are your crops a major source of income? Do you count your cattle/sheep daily? Do you ever check your electric meter?
I just don't get it. Are you managing a business or not?

We do it all out of instinct. Blow the grain when temp is low etc etc. spray when there's no wind etc. Just have better things to do for our businesses than write all this cr@p down every time we do something.

DrWazzock · Nov 30, 2021

It’s some Union that sends somebody round annually to try to find a reason to close you down.
My wife’s Union would back her up in the event of an OFSTED inspection. Finishing people’s careers and livelihoods was left to government inspectors. Her union was there to fight her corner.
Sadly our union seems only too happy to do the governments dirty work for it.
Sure there might well be things that aren’t perfect on farms but at one time we had an EA inspection every four years and at no time would they stop you selling produce.
Quite why the NFU had to step in with an annual inspection and crack down 10 times harder is beyond my comprehension. It’s a busted organisation in my view. Completely busted.

JP1 · Nov 30, 2021

DrWazzock said:
I’m grateful you’ve engaged on here actually. The only NFU member who seems to do that. It mystifies me though why general H and S was brought into the RT arena. Many of us are selling feed grain to feed mills who have very little interest in matters not directly connected with feed safety. I’m surprised the NFU allowed that through amongst other things.
Of course we all have an agenda. Mine is to stay commercially viable while having weekends off if possible. I sometimes wonder what the NFU’s agenda is? Doesn’t seem very clear to me. There seem to have been too many giveaways without much of a fight but I’ll admit I’m not party to what goes on BCD as my shop steward used to say.

H&S prime example of mission creep

I presume RT consider themselves to be anchoring themselves im to checking all essential items and who can argue against safety

It has nothing to do with food assurance and there’s an official agency responsible

ajd132 · Nov 30, 2021

snarling bee said:
I have been doing that as a matter of course for years anyway.
Of all the things in RT I cannot for the life of me see the problem with this other than giving away the information. How the F do you know how much you have in store or to sell if you are not regularly doing a mass balance. Do you just accept payment from merchants without checking? Have you any idea what you harvested? Don't you do a stocktake for YE accounts? Are your crops a major source of income? Do you count your cattle/sheep daily? Do you ever check your electric meter?
I just don't get it. Are you managing a business or not?

What business is it of red tractors what we have in store? Do they really need to know what chemical or fertiliser we have in stock also?
It’s just a waste of time and energy.

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