Concerned about Red Tractor collapse.

tullah · Dec 21, 2021

MrNoo said:
Actually non assured wheat/barley is circa £15-20 discount obviously feed, no milling or malting yet imports fly in. But I know for a fact that non assured gets mixed with assured (uk grown unassured), my feed barley went for malt and all my milling spec feed wheat went up North.

Since they were going to tip your Uk Quality Grain in with the tickboxed rubbish I'm surprised they didn't offer you a premium. Sending it all that way, it woukd hardly have gone for feed. Merchants and millers must take a lot of blame for this fraud too.
Theres a lot to be said for running your own lorry.

tullah · Dec 21, 2021

SilliamWhale said:
Its likely to lead to a collapse of Red Tractor and so you want to make sure they don't have any of your money when they collapse as you won't get it back.

Take the guarantor to the cleaners.

Grass And Grain · Dec 21, 2021

On point...

snarling bee · Dec 21, 2021

Robert Sheasby is an EX NFU employee. Guy Smith is an EX officeholder at the NFU, who lost an election. So yes they HAVE BEEN involved in the NFU but are no longer. HVF said that each of them IS a prominant NFU bod, so that is where he is wrong.
I have no idea how much they still agree with NFU policy, you will have to ask them.
The AIC definitely does not have farmers interests at heart other than to keep us trading to milk more profit for its members.

An Gof · Dec 21, 2021

snarling bee said:
Robert Sheasby is an EX NFU employee. Guy Smith is an EX officeholder at the NFU, who lost an election. So yes they HAVE BEEN involved in the NFU but are no longer. HVF said that each of them IS a prominant NFU bod, so that is where he is wrong.
I have no idea how much they still agree with NFU policy, you will have to ask them.
The AIC definitely does not have farmers interests at heart other than to keep us trading to milk more profit for its members.

At least someone on here knows what they are talking about

Clive · Dec 21, 2021

i

snarling bee said:
Robert Sheasby is an EX NFU employee. Guy Smith is an EX officeholder at the NFU, who lost an election. So yes they HAVE BEEN involved in the NFU but are no longer. HVF said that each of them IS a prominant NFU bod, so that is where he is wrong.
I have no idea how much they still agree with NFU policy, you will have to ask them.
The AIC definitely does not have farmers interests at heart other than to keep us trading to milk more profit for its members.

who does have farmers interest at heart these days ? no one that I can see

There is plenty of cross over of current NFU / AHDB and AIC Committee / board members as well as the "Ex" nfu people you mention ........ relationships and arrangements don't die when you move role, in fact such moves are sometimes intentional and strategic. The NFU in-particular seem to be VERY good at helping the "right". people get the "right" jobs

I would have had £100 bet that Guy Smith would be AHDB chairman eventually ............. BEFORE he committed career suicide at Red Tractor at least. I wonder where Minnete will wash up when she looses to Tom this spring ? ........ I doubt she will be unemployed for long

An Gof · Dec 21, 2021

Clive said:
i

who does have farmers interest at heart these days ? no one that I can see

There is plenty of cross over of current NFU / AHDB and AIC Committee / board members as well as the "Ex" nfu people ........ relationships and arrangements don't die when you move role, in fact such moves are something intentional and strategic. The NFU impartiality seem to be VERY good at helping the "right". people get the "right" jobs

Well it’s not AIC.

It’s a really tricky question. With such a diversity across the agricultural industry it s really difficult for any organisation/group to be all things to all farmers.
I have some fundamental arguments with the line NFU take but they still represent me well in many other areas. Suppose you call it best of a bad job. BUT eliciting change once the NFU has set a path is harder than turning a super tanker around in the Panama Canal.

B'o'B · Dec 21, 2021

An Gof said:
At least someone on here knows what they are talking about

I’m sure they are both completely reformed characters since they left the NFU.
It just a shame their actions don’t show it very clearly.

DrWazzock · Dec 21, 2021

Just look at who has made money from RT.
NSF and it’s employees, likewise RT, NRoSO, and NSTS and all the training and testing people.
But what about the farmers who it was supposed to help? How much have they profited from it? Nothing but extra costs for no discernible premium against imports. A half arsed brand that can’t be used if products are mixed with foreign imports which seems like most of the time.
Yes who does fight to keep farmers commercially viable rather than feather their own or their mates nests?

Humble Village Farmer · Dec 21, 2021

snarling bee said:
Robert Sheasby is an EX NFU employee. Guy Smith is an EX officeholder at the NFU, who lost an election. So yes they HAVE BEEN involved in the NFU but are no longer. HVF said that each of them IS a prominant NFU bod, so that is where he is wrong.
I have no idea how much they still agree with NFU policy, you will have to ask them.
The AIC definitely does not have farmers interests at heart other than to keep us trading to milk more profit for its members.

Thanks for clarifying what I thought I had already said.

Can you explain why people who have worked or held office at the NFU would want to act against farmer's interest by working for organisations like RT or AIC? Are these two the exception or the rule?

ajd132 · Dec 21, 2021

DrWazzock said:
Just look at who has made money from RT.
NSF and it’s employees, likewise RT, NRoSO, and NSTS and all the training and testing people.
But what about the farmers who it was supposed to help? How much have they profited from it? Nothing but extra costs for no discernible premium against imports. A half arsed brand that can’t be used if products are mixed with foreign imports which seems like most of the time.
Yes who does fight to keep farmers commercially viable rather than feather their own or their mates nests?

Post BPS farm businesses need to me mean and lean. If something does not bring value to the business/industry (financially or otherwise -triple bottom line) it needs immediately cutting loose. Many of these things you are talking about come under that banner.

Clive · Dec 21, 2021

DrWazzock said:
Just look at who has made money from RT.
NSF and it’s employees, likewise RT, NRoSO, and NSTS and all the training and testing people.
But what about the farmers who it was supposed to help? How much have they profited from it? Nothing but extra costs for no discernible premium against imports. A half arsed brand that can’t be used if products are mixed with foreign imports which seems like most of the time.
Yes who does fight to keep farmers commercially viable rather than feather their own or their mates nests?

I'm not sure just about money made from the RT scheme (although those on the gravy train do ok I'm sure !) I feel its more about control which in turn creates a need for representation and opportunity to distort supply chains which keeps a heap of others in gravy as well

Humble Village Farmer · Dec 21, 2021

An Gof said:
Well it’s not AIC.

It’s a really tricky question. With such a diversity across the agricultural industry it s really difficult for any organisation/group to be all things to all farmers.
I have some fundamental arguments with the line NFU take but they still represent me well in many other areas. Suppose you call it best of a bad job. BUT eliciting change once the NFU has set a path is harder than turning a super tanker around in the Panama Canal.

So best to work against their interests instead then?

snarling bee · Dec 21, 2021

Humble Village Farmer said:
Thanks for clarifying what I thought I had already said.

Can you explain why people who have worked or held office at the NFU would want to act against farmer's interest by working for organisations like RT or AIC? Are these two the exception or the rule?

Perhaps you need to check your tenses before you press the 'post' button

According to some on this forum they were acting against farmers interests when they worked for or represented the NFU, so they are just doing the same in their new role.

But seriously....Sheasby was an employee of the NFU. Like most employees in an important role, they operate in the best interests of their employers, whichever 'side' the employers are on. Robert Sheasby went from a Regional Director to a CEO, so I assume that is promotion and he gets a better 'package'. He wouldn't last long in the role if he still represented his old employers (ie the NFU).
Isn't this how the world works.

Grass And Grain · Dec 21, 2021

snarling bee said:
Perhaps you need to check your tenses before you press the 'post' button

According to some on this forum they were acting against farmers interests when they worked for or represented the NFU, so they are just doing the same in their new role.

But seriously....Sheasby was an employee of the NFU. Like most employees in an important role, they operate in the best interests of their employers, whichever 'side' the employers are on. Robert Sheasby went from a Regional Director to a CEO, so I assume that is promotion and he gets a better 'package'. He wouldn't last long in the role if he still represented his old employers (ie the NFU).
Isn't this how the world works.

Only a very brief meeting, so a short period of time to make a judgement, but Robert really looked like he was listening and understood what we were saying. Lots of head nodding.

I guess as ex NFU he understood agriculture and what we were talking about. Hopefully he'll be a good person to liaise with.

We just need a bit of common sense from the AIC

Barleymow · Dec 21, 2021

Lucky me I've won something

B'o'B · Dec 21, 2021

Barleymow said:
Lucky me I've won something
View attachment 1004532

That might have been sent to the wrong person.

An Gof · Dec 21, 2021

Grass And Grain said:
Only a very brief meeting, so a short period of time to make a judgement, but Robert really looked like he was listening and understood what we were saying. Lots of head nodding.

I guess as ex NFU he understood agriculture and what we were talking about. Hopefully he'll be a good person to liaise with.

We just need a bit of common sense from the AIC

Beware the wolf in sheep’s clothing. AIC play (very) hard ball. Never forget a meeting I went to with them once ……. they gave us a right good kicking.

Grass And Grain · Dec 21, 2021

An Gof said:
Beware the wolf in sheep’s clothing. AIC play (very) hard ball. Never forget a meeting I went to with them once ……. they gave us a right good kicking.

Thanks for the 'heads up'.

They'll need to up their game, although I'm sure the technical guys can bamboozle us with assurance scheme technicalities - RT, UFAS, FEMAS, EFISC-GTP, all with complex rules.

We talked about imports coming over on a boat, grain from a few hundred farms loaded onto boat, 1x set of lab tests done on 60,000t, according to AIC that grain is now assured.

We gave example of a central store (a boat on land) where grain is loaded and blended into the store from a few hundred farms.

"That's exactly the same situation as a boat. Can we assure that grain in just the same way as the imports - a single set of lab tests?".

Neither of them said a word. No answer. Said it all.

roscoe erf · Dec 21, 2021

Bald Rick said:
Yes, I know exactly who are the drivers behind RT …
My post was slightly tongue-in-cheek but now “the dream” has been sold to the supermarkets, I wonder if they will “allow” U.K. farmers to have no assurance schemes backing the primary products
For example, as a dairy farmer, I have no option but to be RT assured even though only a small proportion of my product will be on supermarket shelves … in common with most farmers who don’t sell direct. Even the aligned milk is pooled despite the extra hoops aligned farmers have to jump over

@7610 super q suggested that assurance schemes could be done away with. Whilst we may all want that nirvana, the cat is out of the bag and the horse has left the stable

just skin the cat and shoot the horse job done

Concerned about Red Tractor collapse.

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100% I’ve had enough of farming!

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