New information about local nature recovery and landscape recovery

delilah · Jan 21, 2022

Janet Hughes Defra said:
you will be able to have both SFI and Local Nature Recovery on the same land.

LNR needs binning. There is no 'public good' to be achieved through it, that cannot be achieved via appropriate options in the SFI.

If you wish to meet two of the key criteria by which Defra themselves have said ELMS will be judged - high participation, low administrative cost - you need to put at least 90% of the total ELMS budget into the SFI.

Vader · Jan 21, 2022

Vader said:
@Janet Hughes Defra
4th time I asked this question.

Vader said:
Hi @Janet Hughes Defra
Think you may have missed my post again.

Hi, you may have missed my post amongst the weekends build up so I will post again.

Can you tell me what happens if a downstream neighbour decides to do the river options and flood his land, but this then waterlogs other farmers land as their drain water can not get away because of the flooded area next door?

Does defra compensate the farmers who have waterlogged land due to the neighbours schemes??

Actually you could also add some woodland to that. If a neighbour uses your scheme to plant a wood upslope from me that then as it matures cuts out direct sunlight for a large area, and so effects crop growth, will Defra be held responsible?

@Janet Hughes Defra
Bump *(again...)
If you and your science experts dud not think if this problem, then fair enough, just let us know that .

BrianV · Jan 21, 2022

Two Tone said:
I wonder how long it will be before it becomes so again?

With:
Food inflation going through the roof.
Energy prices going through the roof, causing a massive increase in fertiliser prices and an undoubted reduction in its use, therefore a reduction in crop yields and food availability Globally.

But for Covid, this would be TOP of the headline news now. Even the Russia/Ukraine situation is going to make the situation worse.

On top of which the English (and maybe the rest of the UK?) Tax payer is now expected to pay taxes so that English farmland is reduced in area to support so-called wildlife! Plenty of which already exists. (Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales are not daft enough to move towards ELMs.)

I really cant see this ELMs scheme lasting long and some sort of real, proper encouragement for farming to feed us returning. Just like in most of the rest of the World.

The first rule of any Government that wants to get into Power and have any chance of remaining in it:
“The public will not look kindly upon any Government or Government Department when they struggle to feed themselves.”
Period!

Basically the English taxpayers will now be subsidising the Scots, Welsh & Northern Irish farmers to enable them to undercut English farmers by way of all of them still receiving their single farm payments subsidy in full while the English farmers subsidy is cut drastically, only the most stupid of politicians would come up with such an idea!!

Vader · Jan 21, 2022

delilah said:
LNR needs binning. There is no 'public good' to be achieved through it, that cannot be achieved via appropriate options in the SFI.

If you wish to meet two of the key criteria by which Defra themselves have said ELMS will be judged - high participation, low administrative cost - you need to put at least 90% of the total ELMS budget into the SFI.

They don't care about criteria.
Its all about giving money to rspb and co.
There is no way scheme could be designed this bad unless it was done on purpose.
Its like this so we don't join it.
They then say was farmers choice not to.
Lot if spare cash to give to other green/rewilding cult projects.

Guess can not blame Janet, she just following orders from above. But she ok as when it all goes wrong, she will still be working, just another gov. Department....
Its farmers who will have to carry the can.

BrianV · Jan 21, 2022

Vader said:
They don't care about criteria.
Its all about giving money to rspb and co.
There is no way scheme could be designed this bad unless it was done on purpose.
Its like this so we don't join it.
They then say was farmers choice not to.
Lot if spare cash to give to other green/rewilding cult projects.

Guess can not blame Janet, she just following orders from above. But she ok as when it all goes wrong, she will still be working, just another gov. Department....
Its farmers who will have to carry the can.

Sorry I understood Janet has already said that ultimately she is in charge of designing this scheme so the buck stops there!

delilah · Jan 21, 2022

I'm still going with cock up rather than conspiracy. They will get there.

Vader · Jan 21, 2022

delilah said:
I'm still going with cock up rather than conspiracy. They will get there.

When they broke 1/2 the farmers...?
Especially livestock.

Henarar · Jan 21, 2022

Vader said:
When they broke 1/2 the farmers...?
Especially livestock.

yes they can then claim to have reduced global warming emissions despite the fact they will have actually done quite the opposite

delilah · Jan 21, 2022

Vader said:
When they broke 1/2 the farmers...?
Especially livestock.

You worry too much. If designing ELMS was a footie match, it is barely half time. Whatever faults folks may feel the process has, the one thing that @Janet Hughes Defra and her team have got right is giving all of this a long lead time.

Janet Hughes Defra · Jan 21, 2022

Vader said:
@Janet Hughes Defra
Bump *(again...)
If you and your science experts dud not think if this problem, then fair enough, just let us know that .

Hello Vader - I'm told there is a legal requirement for downstream landowners to accept drainage from upstream - it's not something government would get involved in in terms of dispute resolution or compensation

Janet Hughes Defra · Jan 21, 2022

delilah said:
LNR needs binning. There is no 'public good' to be achieved through it, that cannot be achieved via appropriate options in the SFI.

If you wish to meet two of the key criteria by which Defra themselves have said ELMS will be judged - high participation, low administrative cost - you need to put at least 90% of the total ELMS budget into the SFI.

From the perspective of a farmer, you won't see a big distinction between LNR and SFI, you will access a single service that shows yo what options are available to you on your land, and pick the combination that works for you. The SFI standards will be focused on actions you can take whilst farming to make your farming more environmentally or climate friendly or improve animal health and welfare, and the LNR options will be more locally specific and involve support for collaboration across a local area.

DRC · Jan 21, 2022

delilah said:
You worry too much. If designing ELMS was a footie match, it is barely half time. Whatever faults folks may feel the process has, the one thing that @Janet Hughes Defra and her team have got right is giving all of this a long lead time.

They’ve had since 2016 to be working on this and loads of data from years of other stewardship schemes.
Time is running out to fill the void that the reductions in BPS will create and the anomaly of only England getting reductions is bizarre to say the least .

DRC · Jan 21, 2022

@Janet Hughes Defra . It’s nearly the end of January and still no sign of the promised retirement scheme, which was supposed to come out last autumn . Any farmer considering it will run out of time if it’s only for 2022.

Wombat · Jan 21, 2022

Janet Hughes Defra said:
Hello Vader - I'm told there is a legal requirement for downstream landowners to accept drainage from upstream - it's not something government would get involved in in terms of dispute resolution or compensation

Government shouldn’t be paying people not to maintain through ditches though as you are rewarding people for damaging their upstream neighbours crops. Which you then say you don’t want to compensate for ……

steveR · Jan 21, 2022

delilah said:
I'm still going with cock up rather than conspiracy. They will get there.

Still time to get it better.... a lot better.

Chatting with a an excellent, farming neighbour today. I think we could say "SFI, No Way". He is probably one of the target businesses for SFI, and it (SFI) will miss the Target!!

Wombat · Jan 21, 2022

Janet Hughes Defra said:
From the perspective of a farmer, you won't see a big distinction between LNR and SFI, you will access a single service that shows yo what options are available to you on your land, and pick the combination that works for you. The SFI standards will be focused on actions you can take whilst farming to make your farming more environmentally or climate friendly or improve animal health and welfare, and the LNR options will be more locally specific and involve support for collaboration across a local area.

If it’s taking budget from farmers that we current receive then it’s definitely a distinction we want to be aware of.

Henarar · Jan 21, 2022

silverfox said:
@Janet Hughes Defra . It’s nearly the end of January and still no sign of the promised retirement scheme, which was supposed to come out last autumn . Any farmer considering it will run out of time if it’s only for 2022.

They are keeping it quiet as the way they are carrying on it will probably be over subscribed

Janet Hughes Defra · Jan 21, 2022

silverfox said:
@Janet Hughes Defra . It’s nearly the end of January and still no sign of the promised retirement scheme, which was supposed to come out last autumn . Any farmer considering it will run out of time if it’s only for 2022.

Yes, I'm sorry, it's taken us longer than expected to finalise the details, which we are still doing - we will publish details asap, we're well aware of the time criticality of this

tepapa · Jan 21, 2022

delilah said:
LNR needs binning. There is no 'public good' to be achieved through it, that cannot be achieved via appropriate options in the SFI.

If you wish to meet two of the key criteria by which Defra themselves have said ELMS will be judged - high participation, low administrative cost - you need to put at least 90% of the total ELMS budget into the SFI.

I'm confused, I can't remember if LNR is the middle, for the environment scheme similar to CS, or is it the one aimed towards the NT and RSPB?

The 500 ha limit NT scheme want's binning. If DEFRA want long term habitat recovery they just need to pay a decent return for margins/habitats under the middle scheme.e.g. Water margins don't move they're in the same place year after year. If gov pay to make that margin into a habitat it's not going to go anywhere unless the water supply dries up so as long as gov keep paying decent compensation for the loss of that ground, the habitat will remain. It's the farmers choice if he wants government cash, if he doesn't he doesn't have to have a margin but if he does then he will keep it long term.

WOODCHIP · Jan 21, 2022

What happens if your landlord doesn’t want any scheme on his land ? I have this problem they won’t allow countryside stewardships because you are locked in for 5 years they don’t want to jeopardise any potential building development.

New information about local nature recovery and landscape recovery

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100% I’ve had enough of farming!

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