The Ineos Grenadier thread

Cowabunga

Member
Location
Ceredigion,Wales
Surely they got the payload up to over the tonne? That would explain the different rear seats, perhaps, if they’d made them lighter.

FWIW, my old style 110 has 7 seats, windows in the back and is still a commercial which can take just over a tonne.
No, the Grenadier has between 600 and 700Kg payload I believe. It weighs around 2.7 tons unladen.
It used to be that LR Station wagons had to have 12 seats to be a commercial, regardless of payload. Hence they sold hardly any 9 or ten seat versions in the UK.
I owned a 12 seater station wagon fairly early on in production. With the sliding front windows rather than wind down ones. It was one of the first with the new 2.5 Diesel engine with timing belt. Unfortunately, unlike the 110 Hi Cap I bought about a year later [with wind down windows], the station wagon was a reliability disaster. Nearly everything that could go wrong did go wrong. In three years it was on its third synchromesh rebuild and that was failing. It had several sets of Panhard rod bushes. It was out of track from new. Much else I forget but the bomb-surprise was a massive oil leak from the back of the crank at 30,000 miles where the seal had worn a groove in the crank bush. New crankshaft needed. Oh and in that 30,000 miles it was also on its third power steering box due to shaft leaks. No help fro LR outside warranty whatsoever and it was sold on its third birthday. If I knew it was to be so bad I would never have bought the HiCap pickup, but luckily that was quite reliable after its factory clutch failed at about two years of age, and it and the replacement [non genuine clutch] lasted for 22 years of really hard graft.
 

CPF

Member
Arable Farmer
This is the payload for the Australian version
6165010E-73D5-4A93-8439-CBA4636DD6E8.jpeg
 

mf7480

Member
Mixed Farmer
No, nothing. I really am quite surprised that they have managed it because I posted some while ago about the issue of them not having anything but a van available as a commercial class vehicle. I am amazed that they got it through in its current form and wonder whether the second row of seats are dreadfully compromised.
Hasn’t stopped me paying a deposit for one. Take the VAT away and the five seat Grenadier commercial fairly fully loaded with extras is very very competitive with a fairly basic LR Defender 110 van. Not cheap but excellent value in today’s market. No initial ‘luxury car tax’, saving a couple of thousand on initial purchase [applicable to cars over £40k] and at least £500/year cheaper on road duty for the first five or six years compared to similar type vehicles [based on emissions]. Plus business tax relief that isn’t applicable to cars/SUV’s.

Despite the Grenadier having near zero UK content, I’m pleasantly surprised. The one good thing about the Defender is that it has a British built engine, but I wonder which is best, the LR Ingenium 250hp or the BMW 250hp as fitted to Grenadier?

Good stuff! What sort of delivery time are they looking at?
 

Cowabunga

Member
Location
Ceredigion,Wales
Good stuff! What sort of delivery time are they looking at?
Could be in terms of years. There is likely to be a significant drop-out of people who have even paid a deposit before actual signed orders of course, if only because the vast majority, me included, have not even seen one in the metal yet, while others will be shocked by the asking price having hoped it would be priced at Ford Fiesta levels.
 
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C.J

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
South Devon
My son saw one turning into a wedding venue , across the valley from here. Apparantly Ocean BMW were also having a launch event for their latest tossermobile.

A local man tried the Utility Grenadier and wrote on the grenadier forum, that they had pushed the rear seats so far forward that it was very difficult to get in and out of the rear doors.
 

hally

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
cumbria
Certainly been doing accompanied test drives in Australia.. a friend in New South Wales has just ordered one!
Yes i saw one of the videos but would prefer an independent journalist opinion from the driving seat. Cant see why they would not be a good vehicle and was intending to look closer at them but my pick up was getting too problematic to run another couple of years
 

Cowabunga

Member
Location
Ceredigion,Wales
My son saw one turning into a wedding venue , across the valley from here. Apparantly Ocean BMW were also having a launch event for their latest tossermobile.

A local man tried the Utility Grenadier and wrote on the grenadier forum, that they had pushed the rear seats so far forward that it was very difficult to get in and out of the rear doors.
I wonder whether they could be pushed back again using basic tools? It has to be practical and comfortable at the end of the day. I want a cut-price G-Wagen not an expensive 1980’s type Defender. For work? Yes certainly but although likely to be used only occasionally for rear seat passengers [as is my Ford Ranger], when it is used it must be fit for purpose. My Ranger mostly carries tools and straps and cow medicines and paraphernalia in the second row and has to be ‘mucked out’ somewhat when passengers need a lift.
 
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mf7480

Member
Mixed Farmer
I wonder whether they could be pushed back again using basic tools? It has to be practical and comfortable at the end of the day. I want a cut-price G-Wagen not an expensive 1980’s type Defender. For work? Yes certainly but although likely to be used only occasionally for rear seat passengers [as is my Ford Ranger], when it is used it must be fit for purpose. My Ranger mostly carries tools and straps and cow medicines and paraphernalia in the second row and has to be ‘mucked out’ somewhat when passengers need a lift.

There’s been a few that have sat in one saying the rear bulkhead looks very easily removed and the passenger version bolt holes are just covered with plastic bungs. Almost designed to just be shifted back
 

Bertram

Member
My son saw one turning into a wedding venue , across the valley from here. Apparantly Ocean BMW were also having a launch event for their latest tossermobile.

A local man tried the Utility Grenadier and wrote on the grenadier forum, that they had pushed the rear seats so far forward that it was very difficult to get in and out of the rear doors.
Apparently a 2 day demo at Shilston Barton, I think it was, last weekend?
 

mf7480

Member
Mixed Farmer
No, nothing. I really am quite surprised that they have managed it because I posted some while ago about the issue of them not having anything but a van available as a commercial class vehicle. I am amazed that they got it through in its current form and wonder whether the second row of seats are dreadfully compromised.
Hasn’t stopped me paying a deposit for one. Take the VAT away and the five seat Grenadier commercial fairly fully loaded with extras is very very competitive with a fairly basic LR Defender 110 van. Not cheap but excellent value in today’s market. No initial ‘luxury car tax’, saving a couple of thousand on initial purchase [applicable to cars over £40k] and at least £500/year cheaper on road duty for the first five or six years compared to similar type vehicles [based on emissions]. Plus business tax relief that isn’t applicable to cars/SUV’s.

Despite the Grenadier having near zero UK content, I’m pleasantly surprised. The one good thing about the Defender is that it has a British built engine, but I wonder which is best, the LR Ingenium 250hp or the BMW 250hp as fitted to Grenadier?

86E47530-2135-4AEB-88B2-45EE6B60000F.jpeg
 

Cowabunga

Member
Location
Ceredigion,Wales
This is what puzzled me with the Ineos claim that they met commercial vehicle classification in the first place.
Why did they make the obviously dubious claim that they were classed as ‘commercial vehicles’ on the UK website to start with? I reckon that someone hasn’t got a clue as to what they are doing. There’s no way that they will get any significant commercial/utility type sales when subject to luxury car tax and a very significant hike in road fund license for many years when they are classed as, well, ‘luxury cars’.

Someone at Ineos has made a massive massive mistake and the whole concept of their five seat ‘commercial’ is completely blown out of the water if the above is correct. If so, and it makes total sense to me, then it means I knew more about what qualifies as a commercial vehicle for tax purposes than Ineos engineers and marketing. It doesn’t inspire confidence in the company’s management at all.

It will absolutely and certainly mean that if those conditions hold, I will cancel and want my deposit back. This is where I expressed my surprise at the Ineos claim...
#175
 
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mf7480

Member
Mixed Farmer
This is what puzzled me with the Ineos claim that they met commercial vehicle classification in the first place.
Why did they make the obviously dubious claim that they were classed as ‘commercial vehicles’ on the UK website to start with? I reckon that someone hasn’t got a clue as to what they are doing. There’s no way that they will get any significant commercial/utility type sales when subject to luxury car tax and a very significant hike in road fund license for many years when they are classed as, well, ‘luxury cars’.

Someone at Ineos has made a massive massive mistake and the whole concept of their five seat ‘commercial’ is completely blown out of the water if the above is correct. If so, and it makes total sense to me, then it means I knew more about what qualifies as a commercial vehicle for tax purposes than Ineos engineers and marketing. It doesn’t inspire confidence in the company’s management at all.

It will absolutely and certainly mean that if those conditions hold, I will cancel and want my deposit back.

I agree. I think we all knew it was an impossible situation even when it was written in black and white.
 

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
This is what puzzled me with the Ineos claim that they met commercial vehicle classification in the first place.
Why did they make the obviously dubious claim that they were classed as ‘commercial vehicles’ on the UK website to start with? I reckon that someone hasn’t got a clue as to what they are doing. There’s no way that they will get any significant commercial/utility type sales when subject to luxury car tax and a very significant hike in road fund license for many years when they are classed as, well, ‘luxury cars’.

Someone at Ineos has made a massive massive mistake and the whole concept of their five seat ‘commercial’ is completely blown out of the water if the above is correct. If so, and it makes total sense to me, then it means I knew more about what qualifies as a commercial vehicle for tax purposes than Ineos engineers and marketing. It doesn’t inspire confidence in the company’s management at all.

It will absolutely and certainly mean that if those conditions hold, I will cancel and want my deposit back. This is where I expressed my surprise at the Ineos claim...
#175


isn’t it use that determines Vat qualification ?

a business that operates from a unit here has vat qualifying Lamborghinis and Ferraris - used on experience days

a ford fiesta is vat qualifying if you are a driving instructor or taxi company etc

so as long as your Grenadier is business use only them you can reclaim vat
 

Cowabunga

Member
Location
Ceredigion,Wales
isn’t it use that determines Vat qualification ?

a business that operates from a unit here has vat qualifying Lamborghinis and Ferraris - used on experience days

a ford fiesta is vat qualifying if you are a driving instructor or taxi company etc

so as long as your Grenadier is business use only them you can reclaim vat

No it is not use in the agricultural sense. If it was used for hire and reward exclusively though, it would qualify for VAT reclaim. However it would not qualify for exemption from the initial luxury car tax or the annual excise duty premium based on vehicle emissions.

Good luck trying to get a straight accountant to class a non-commercial vehicle as a commercial for tax purposes on a farm. The best you could legally hope for would be a 50% rebate on tax on rentals if business contract hired.
 

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Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

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As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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