Janet Hughes DEFRA Missing in action?
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@Janet Hughes Defra. The
Institute for Government publication.
From a new "Institute for Government" report - UK agriculture after Brexit:
Participating in SFI soils standards will not result in a designation, no.
Depending on where you are, what you do and what habitats, species etc you have, some of the more ambitious habitat creation or restoration options in Local Nature Recovery could potentially result in a designation, but that should be very clear to you in deciding to do those options. I've noted that you've asked about this and am picking up with my team to make sure we make this clear in the scheme options and guidance so that nobody is at risk of being taken by surprise - I can absolutely see why you would want to be sure of that.
If you enter into a long-term landscape recovery project, which is the scheme IFG were referring to (there will only be a small number of these bespoke projects, for long-term land-use change type projects), you may well be creating habitats or other features that would then be subject to a longer-term covenant or other way of preserving the new / restored habitats over time. In that case, you would know and consent to that before you enter into the contract, as part of the project development phase, and you'd be able to decide whether that's what you want to do.
Any agreement is going to fall foul of EIA Regulations over time. Those are the Regulations everybody needs to study and keep watching for amendments not just to your ELMs but also any EIA implications.
Much safer to say no thanks, I’m a farmer and agriculture is the best public good any land can provide.
Not your individual fault Janet but I for one don’t trust the people or the product they’re peddling.
Much safer to say no thanks, I’m a farmer and agriculture is the best public good any land can provide.
Not your individual fault Janet but I for one don’t trust the people or the product they’re peddling.
@Janet Hughes Defra,
thank you for your helpful reply.However I find it very disconcerting that it takes a member of this forum to get DEFRA to relook at the wording on their schemes,if I had not mentioned it, may be the wording would have caught ambitious local nature recovery farmer schemes , locking them into land designations.I was considering LNR but now feel its being looked at too closely by Natural England to see if they can lock you into a designation.
As I read the absolutely ridiculous masses of pages on SFI released yesterday it seems more and more that these schemes are far from simple and full of pitfalls(eg if herbal leys fail despite best efforts,you could be putting them in for 3 years not one).farmers will have to pay for expensive soil and Som tests,maybe herbal leys, and looking at the proforma of the soil plan will probably need expensive professional help to produce it. There is not going to be much subsidy left after paying for all of that.Sadly not simple,lots of extra costs,hidden regulations and not a great amount of subsidy. Such a lot of missed opportunities.
thank you for your helpful reply.However I find it very disconcerting that it takes a member of this forum to get DEFRA to relook at the wording on their schemes,if I had not mentioned it, may be the wording would have caught ambitious local nature recovery farmer schemes , locking them into land designations.I was considering LNR but now feel its being looked at too closely by Natural England to see if they can lock you into a designation.
As I read the absolutely ridiculous masses of pages on SFI released yesterday it seems more and more that these schemes are far from simple and full of pitfalls(eg if herbal leys fail despite best efforts,you could be putting them in for 3 years not one).farmers will have to pay for expensive soil and Som tests,maybe herbal leys, and looking at the proforma of the soil plan will probably need expensive professional help to produce it. There is not going to be much subsidy left after paying for all of that.Sadly not simple,lots of extra costs,hidden regulations and not a great amount of subsidy. Such a lot of missed opportunities.
SFI summed up in the 2 sentences above...
I have yet to wade through the bumph, and will probably not do so now. As I have said before, I'll wait for a couple of years to see if it makes any sense in 2024/5. The hassle and complexity for not very much return (at present) has little appeal here.
I am sure the RSPB and NT et al, will not care much though...
The Seeker
Member
why are we doing the cross examining of the schemes , what are they being paid for ? ill be out of everything except sssi as soon as i can
The andersons centre...chosen by Gov.uk for their consultancy were NFU sponsored an SFI impact analysis for 2022.. even ignoring CS double funding after costs joining SFI intermediate scheme on a 200ha arable farm is forecast to give a return of £13 per Ha... that is why @Janet Hughes Defra lots of us wont sign up to SFI now even if we were already excluded by CS double funding rules!!
Hi @Janet Hughes Defra had a nice polite phone call from RPA this morning saying I hadn't done my CS claim for 2022 and that my Organic Certificate would need to run from 1st January 2022 to 31st December 2022.
I asked her to repeat as it didn't make sense , I have a online receipt for my 2022 CS claim and Organic Certificates can only go from month of inspection for 12 months, she repeated the same thing .
Unsure whether it was a wind up I rang the RPA and explained the phone call I had , chap on the phone said there's no way we'd ask for a calendar 12 months (January- December ) on your Organic Certificate it's your normal Organic Certificate and schedule we want , I also asked about my 2022 CS claim.
After being put on hold for several minutes he came back & said CS claim has been received but no Organic Certificate ( which was sent April 6th same day as online claim ) so must have been lost in the post ( his words ) and anyway we do now want a Calendar 12 months on your Certificate ( after saying there's no way they would want that).
Rang Organic Farmers and Growers explained to their Senior Certification Officer what RPA wanted, he said " No" & " I don't know how many departments RPA has but we've told them several times we can't do 12month calendar Certificates it would mean us having to inspect every farm in December " & " also your Certificate goes until 30th November 2022 surely that's close enough"
I then went to email RPA with my current Organic certificate & schedule, and the person that rang this morning had sent a email & confirmed I had sent my CS 2022 claim and also that I had agreed on the phone to contact Organic Farmers and Growers for a 12 month calendar Certificate .
I have emailed them back my current Organic Certificate & schedule and said I have contacted Organic Farmers & Growers and they don't give out 12 month calendar Certificates.
Is this right that the RPA now want 12 month calendar Organic Certificates?
How silly is that if a farm is inspected in June they'd need a 6 month extension, surely current Certificate at time of annual claim should be enough.
Another thing the Certification Officer told me is DEFRA have never liked Certificate extensions ( I had one during Covid as they got behind with inspections ) but now they seem to want them?
It's really stressful when your busy trying to sort these things out , this is 1 CS agreement what will happen when there's several SFI agreements? I won't have time to farm sorting the agreements out , I won't be claiming though as the extra stress isn't worth it.
I asked her to repeat as it didn't make sense , I have a online receipt for my 2022 CS claim and Organic Certificates can only go from month of inspection for 12 months, she repeated the same thing .
Unsure whether it was a wind up I rang the RPA and explained the phone call I had , chap on the phone said there's no way we'd ask for a calendar 12 months (January- December ) on your Organic Certificate it's your normal Organic Certificate and schedule we want , I also asked about my 2022 CS claim.
After being put on hold for several minutes he came back & said CS claim has been received but no Organic Certificate ( which was sent April 6th same day as online claim ) so must have been lost in the post ( his words ) and anyway we do now want a Calendar 12 months on your Certificate ( after saying there's no way they would want that).
Rang Organic Farmers and Growers explained to their Senior Certification Officer what RPA wanted, he said " No" & " I don't know how many departments RPA has but we've told them several times we can't do 12month calendar Certificates it would mean us having to inspect every farm in December " & " also your Certificate goes until 30th November 2022 surely that's close enough"
I then went to email RPA with my current Organic certificate & schedule, and the person that rang this morning had sent a email & confirmed I had sent my CS 2022 claim and also that I had agreed on the phone to contact Organic Farmers and Growers for a 12 month calendar Certificate .
I have emailed them back my current Organic Certificate & schedule and said I have contacted Organic Farmers & Growers and they don't give out 12 month calendar Certificates.
Is this right that the RPA now want 12 month calendar Organic Certificates?
How silly is that if a farm is inspected in June they'd need a 6 month extension, surely current Certificate at time of annual claim should be enough.
Another thing the Certification Officer told me is DEFRA have never liked Certificate extensions ( I had one during Covid as they got behind with inspections ) but now they seem to want them?
It's really stressful when your busy trying to sort these things out , this is 1 CS agreement what will happen when there's several SFI agreements? I won't have time to farm sorting the agreements out , I won't be claiming though as the extra stress isn't worth it.
- Location
- Glen Clova, Angus, DD8 4RD
Someone in a key role is clearly making decisions about things they have no understanding of.....
Well I've gone back over the CS 2022 claim form -
I hold a valid Organic Certificate for the whole year- sign declaration
Now I read that as I will continue to be Organic for the whole 12 months, doesn't say at all to send a Certificate in , your signing that you will be covered the whole 12 months.
E.g. My Organic Certificate runs out 30th November, I'm signing I will continue the Certification process.
I can't have a Certificate to cover the whole 12 months as I haven't had my inspection for November yet
So @Janet Hughes Defra now the Minister has publically u turned his ELM's budget in time for Cereals 22 so that LNR is not now coming from the 2.4 billion pot of cash... maybe you might be able to pay twice as much for SFI standards per Ha or for those of us double funded by CS who can't join SFI prehaps you can make all options in CS 30% funding increases not just a couple of CS Options?? Obviously you dont have the budget until 2024 when BPS is dying off but an announcement like that might give hope to those of us considering alternative employment in the absence of anything slightly interesting on the table so far from DEFRA?
- Location
- Moreton-in-Marsh, Glos
Everybody I speak to seems to be utterly dazed and confused by ELMs in its entirety.
To the extent that they just are fed up with even wanting to think about it due to its complexity.
To the extent that they just are fed up with even wanting to think about it due to its complexity.
Goweresque
Member
- Location
- North Wilts
I notice I never got a response regarding inflation and SFI payment rates........................
What is Inflation?
not the official agri inflation rate of 29% prehaps @Goweresque ?
not the official agri inflation rate of 29% prehaps @Goweresque ?
- Location
- Essex
Inflation is a very important consideration when committing to a scheme for a fixed period.
paulthefarm
Member
Surely any scheme should be directly linked to RPI if it runs for more than one year.
Yes every other Gov scheme does and Farming support seems to be the exception.. RPI is fair... DEFRA is not fair and clearly doesn't value farmers?
- Location
- Essex
In one year's time, the payments for any of these schemes will be at least 9% lower in real terms