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teslacoils said:

It's a domestic issue for Russia.

You can't keep having referendums until you get the "right" answer.

Anyway, let's just see how it plays out.

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DrWazzock said:

I’ve often said if you go abroad you’ll struggle to find many on either side who can lie straight in bed at night. It’s really to some extent gang or gangster warfare over there. Zelensky himself is the place man of one particular oligarch. It might look like a noble cause but beneath it all it’s a power struggle between enormously powerful and corrupt politician / gangsters who hoovered up the assets of the Soviet Union. Sadly the ordinary folk are ignored as collateral damage and take the brunt of it. It’s a fight over industrial assets and control of trade as much as anything.
And I’ve also often said that if Scotland did gain independence and then several years down the line looked like becoming a client state of some foreign super power, I could quite see the British Armed Forces invading to protect our interests.if it looked like the submarine base was going to fall into hostile hands then we’d be fools not to intervene militarily. But frankly I’ve lost interest. We seemed to think it quite acceptable to leave Afghanistan to its fate so really I don’t take much notice of politicians anymore.

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teslacoils said:

I'm perhaps concerned with zelenskyys view that he will sacrifice many Ukrainians to protect every inch of Ukraine, when what he's talking about is a fairly arbitrary line in the sand. He wants to negotiate but has no desire to actually alter sny of his demands. Like many moments in history, the boundary of what he considers Ukraine was set in a time of good faith and covered a lot of historic and ethic Russia.

It's a sad day when two sides rampant nationalism and a sense of a mythical historic golden age are played out with the lives of lads not much older than my sons. But big countries, splitting into smaller countries, then joining new ones and the associated squabbles are nothing new.

The west will applaud Ukraine splitting from Russia and having a vite to join nato, but they will take the opposite view of Crimea and donbas voting to join Russia.

The fact it played out with the lives of the next generation, and the vandalism of swathes of their joint, peaceful history is beyond disgusting.

I have many friends from uni on both sides. Families with relatives on both sides of a conflict. I've studied the region for many years - I expect I'm one of a few here who has done academic study on the making of modern Ukraine, or on geopolitics of the region.

Anyway, way off topic. If you want my thoughts on the conflict you're welcome to pm. If it's just to direct abuse then please title so and I'll put it in the bin.

At the very least Google Firtash and see if you think he's the kind of chap you'd like to go out to dinner with. And tell me if you think he is a person of good character.

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DrWazzock said:

I’ve often said if you go abroad you’ll struggle to find many on either side who can lie straight in bed at night. It’s really to some extent gang or gangster warfare over there. Zelensky himself is the place man of one particular oligarch. It might look like a noble cause but beneath it all it’s a power struggle between enormously powerful and corrupt politician / gangsters who hoovered up the assets of the Soviet Union. Sadly the ordinary folk are ignored as collateral damage and take the brunt of it. It’s a fight over industrial assets and control of trade as much as anything.
And I’ve also often said that if Scotland did gain independence and then several years down the line looked like becoming a client state of some foreign super power, I could quite see the British Armed Forces invading to protect our interests.if it looked like the submarine base was going to fall into hostile hands then we’d be fools not to intervene militarily. But frankly I’ve lost interest. We seemed to think it quite acceptable to leave Afghanistan to its fate so really I don’t take much notice of politicians anymore.

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gone up the hill said:

Zelensky is more bent than Putin!

Zelensky has banned the other week every political party in Ukraine other than his own party...

Quite clear now that most country's in the world are trying/ have already found a way around the sanctions to buy inputs from Russia like fuel/ fert etc etc! Only country that will not do this will be the UK as Boris does not give a sh!t how much damage the sanctions on Russia effect the UK population, all Boris cares about is himself and if he destroys the UK and makes most people destitute in his quest to make as money as possible for him and his Eton mates he will do it!

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bobk said:

So the high moral ground is wrong ?

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gone up the hill said:

You cannot use high moral ground and the corrupt Zelenski in the same sentance!

( And i am no fan of Russia or what Putin has done )

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bobk said:

It was your comments about Boris that I pointed out

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gone up the hill said:

You cannot use high moral ground and the corrupt Zelenski in the same sentance!

( And i am no fan of Russia or what Putin has done )

And do not be fooled, Boris only cares about himself and wanting to be thought of like Churchill was in and after WW11, he does not give two sh1!s about the Ukraine people!

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teslacoils said:

I'm perhaps concerned with zelenskyys view that he will sacrifice many Ukrainians to protect every inch of Ukraine, when what he's talking about is a fairly arbitrary line in the sand. He wants to negotiate but has no desire to actually alter sny of his demands. Like many moments in history, the boundary of what he considers Ukraine was set in a time of good faith and covered a lot of historic and ethic Russia.

It's a sad day when two sides rampant nationalism and a sense of a mythical historic golden age are played out with the lives of lads not much older than my sons. But big countries, splitting into smaller countries, then joining new ones and the associated squabbles are nothing new.

The west will applaud Ukraine splitting from Russia and having a vite to join nato, but they will take the opposite view of Crimea and donbas voting to join Russia.

The fact it played out with the lives of the next generation, and the vandalism of swathes of their joint, peaceful history is beyond disgusting.

I have many friends from uni on both sides. Families with relatives on both sides of a conflict. I've studied the region for many years - I expect I'm one of a few here who has done academic study on the making of modern Ukraine, or on geopolitics of the region.

Anyway, way off topic. If you want my thoughts on the conflict you're welcome to pm. If it's just to direct abuse then please title so and I'll put it in the bin.

At the very least Google Firtash and see if you think he's the kind of chap you'd like to go out to dinner with. And tell me if you think he is a person of good character.

Click to expand...

teslacoils said:

I'm perhaps concerned with zelenskyys view that he will sacrifice many Ukrainians to protect every inch of Ukraine, when what he's talking about is a fairly arbitrary line in the sand. He wants to negotiate but has no desire to actually alter sny of his demands. Like many moments in history, the boundary of what he considers Ukraine was set in a time of good faith and covered a lot of historic and ethic Russia.

It's a sad day when two sides rampant nationalism and a sense of a mythical historic golden age are played out with the lives of lads not much older than my sons. But big countries, splitting into smaller countries, then joining new ones and the associated squabbles are nothing new.

The west will applaud Ukraine splitting from Russia and having a vite to join nato, but they will take the opposite view of Crimea and donbas voting to join Russia.

The fact it played out with the lives of the next generation, and the vandalism of swathes of their joint, peaceful history is beyond disgusting.

I have many friends from uni on both sides. Families with relatives on both sides of a conflict. I've studied the region for many years - I expect I'm one of a few here who has done academic study on the making of modern Ukraine, or on geopolitics of the region.

Anyway, way off topic. If you want my thoughts on the conflict you're welcome to pm. If it's just to direct abuse then please title so and I'll put it in the bin.

At the very least Google Firtash and see if you think he's the kind of chap you'd like to go out to dinner with. And tell me if you think he is a person of good character.

Click to expand...

teslacoils said:

There is so much more to this than "he started it". So much history.


f they prefer Ukraine, then they can move. See it's two sided. These regions have only been nominally modern Ukraine for a tiny quantity of time. Just spend some time looking at this history. It's a British thing it seems to assume the underdog most be the goodie and the aggressor must be the baddie.

Good thing we live in a country where difference of opinion is considered in a curtious and respectful way.

I'll state this again. I am pro peace. Now for the contentious - I don't think a bit of soil is worth dying over for anyone. Let alone young lads who a year ago would have been in school or playing football together.

Click to expand...

teslacoils said:

I'm perhaps concerned with zelenskyys view that he will sacrifice many Ukrainians to protect every inch of Ukraine, when what he's talking about is a fairly arbitrary line in the sand. He wants to negotiate but has no desire to actually alter sny of his demands. Like many moments in history, the boundary of what he considers Ukraine was set in a time of good faith and covered a lot of historic and ethic Russia.

It's a sad day when two sides rampant nationalism and a sense of a mythical historic golden age are played out with the lives of lads not much older than my sons. But big countries, splitting into smaller countries, then joining new ones and the associated squabbles are nothing new.

The west will applaud Ukraine splitting from Russia and having a vite to join nato, but they will take the opposite view of Crimea and donbas voting to join Russia.

The fact it played out with the lives of the next generation, and the vandalism of swathes of their joint, peaceful history is beyond disgusting.

I have many friends from uni on both sides. Families with relatives on both sides of a conflict. I've studied the region for many years - I expect I'm one of a few here who has done academic study on the making of modern Ukraine, or on geopolitics of the region.

Anyway, way off topic. If you want my thoughts on the conflict you're welcome to pm. If it's just to direct abuse then please title so and I'll put it in the bin.

At the very least Google Firtash and see if you think he's the kind of chap you'd like to go out to dinner with. And tell me if you think he is a person of good character.

Click to expand...

teslacoils said:

There is so much more to this than "he started it". So much history.


f they prefer Ukraine, then they can move. See it's two sided. These regions have only been nominally modern Ukraine for a tiny quantity of time. Just spend some time looking at this history. It's a British thing it seems to assume the underdog most be the goodie and the aggressor must be the baddie.

Good thing we live in a country where difference of opinion is considered in a curtious and respectful way.

I'll state this again. I am pro peace. Now for the contentious - I don't think a bit of soil is worth dying over for anyone. Let alone young lads who a year ago would have been in school or playing football together.

Click to expand...