Worlds gone f***ing mad!

Kiwi Pete · Jun 9, 2022

Yale said:
Here‘s one of many articles on this megalomaniac and his agenda.

Synthetic meat investor Bill Gates calls for rich countries to shift entirely to synthetic meat - Beef Central

Livestock industry leaders have urged Microsoft founder and billionaire philanthrophist Bill Gates to undertake more research into livestock production after he called for policies requiring people in rich countries to eat “100 percent synthetic beef”...Read More

www.beefcentral.com

My take is we should be conserving fossil fuels and energy not be beaten by a crude carbon stick.

The earths climate is far more complicated than just carbon.

Yes. Unfortunately a lot of farmers tend to be drawn into simpletonville and follow suit - it's all about food production, it's all about Carbon, it's all about efficiency.... etc

We're all human, subject to similar schooling and with remarkably similar life experiences - but what's available are "our differences", and by emphasising this then we are easily distracted, divided and manipulated

The sheer number of things that have changed and been altered while everyone's meant to be looking at: Harry fecking off abroad, Covid, Johnny Depp's trial, putting up the Ukraine decorations - etc - is staggering

Cowabunga · Jun 9, 2022

The IPCC is politically driven, not science driven. Let nobody be under any illusion about this. It has a proven history of creating an ‘industry’ and ‘jobs for the boys’ by manipulating the data to make it and conclusions drawn from it fit their pre-determined agenda.

Never let that revelation, which should really not be news to anyone that’s not asleep at the wheel, escape your attention. There is no increased sea level rise over the long term average and neither is there any significant global warming above what could easily be down to sun activity. It just isn’t happening and doomsday targets are being overshot more often than Jahovas miss Raptures, even though every hot period everywhere is touted as such while equally unusual cold spells are put down to ‘just weather’ or even as yet another manifestation of climate ‘change'.

Kiwi Pete · Jun 9, 2022

DaveGrohl said:
It's the need to appear to be doing something. Anything.

Here's a thought.

Say the world "produces" an olympic size swimming pool of methane per year (and we know how it works, but bear with), NZ's total contribution is just under one teaspoon full.

And ½ of that is [allegedly] from our cows and sheep, none of it is from vegetation decomposing as it does.

And that's "what causes climate change"

Kiwi Pete · Jun 9, 2022

Yale said:
Just as an aside.

Current world temperatures are at the 30 year average. Funny enough haven’t seen that on the news.

Ice in the Arctic IIRC is at the same level over summer however winter temps have been slightly higher than average due to water vapour.

The science on climate change is not settled,global cooling is a far greater risk to humanity than warming.

If the poles warm relative to the tropics it means there is less contrast in temps therefore weather events become less extreme.

This was proved by last year’s hurricane season being relatively benign.

Facts are out there however they are buried under government agendas.

Some otherwise extremely intelligent and informed individuals believe anything an "authority" tells them to believe.

You could call it cult-like behaviour, or substitute one letter for another if you wish.

Be kind to molluscs.

Aspiring Peasants · Jun 9, 2022

Kiwi Pete said:
Some otherwise extremely intelligent and informed individuals believe anything an "authority" tells them to believe.

You could call it cult-like behaviour, or substitute one letter for another if you wish.

Be kind to molluscs.

I think the term is "useful idiots"

Kiwi Pete · Jun 9, 2022

Aspiring Peasants said:
I think the term is "useful idiots"

"useless eaters" according to the mastermind

Dead Rabbits · Jun 9, 2022

Global ovine said:
@delilah and @Dead Rabbits I think you are blaming the wrong people. As I wrote in post #48 above; countries signed up to lower their GHG emissions 30 years ago. Some countries can do that by switching from coal to gas, or from cars to trains and cycles. But countries such as NZ (and Ireland) have GHG profiles where half comes from farming. Such nations have no choice under the international agreement to do something, but not at the reduction of food production.

I repeat; warming is a global issue, not a national issue, but the agreement puts the onus on each country to make its agreed reductions over specified time periods, irrespective of where and how their emissions are created.

I don't like the situation NZ has found itself, but at least NZ farming leaders have had the opportunity of writing their own invoices for their emissions. Better than being beaten down and out with taxes at world carbon prices, that do not account for individual farm differences and the carbon they sequester. This plan does offer carrots, rather than a big stick.

I’m observing from a distance as I see this foolishness headed our way.

An agreement enforced by what army? If I’m not mistaken the climate agreement is non binding? So in effect NZ is hindering its rural and national economy so that a few people in government can brag about being a “world leader” in emissions.

This has not one thing to do with reducing emissions. It will not reduce anything. It is about taxing and scape goating a soft target based on blatant lies and misinformation.

It looks to me as though NZ farm leaders will do as they are told. It’s not the response I was expecting.

Dead Rabbits · Jun 9, 2022

Kiwi Pete said:
Some otherwise extremely intelligent and informed individuals believe anything an "authority" tells them to believe.

You could call it cult-like behaviour, or substitute one letter for another if you wish.

Be kind to molluscs.

The covid 19 response was an interesting watch world wide. No doubt

SilliamWhale · Jun 9, 2022

Kiwi Pete said:
Here's a thought.

Say the world "produces" an olympic size swimming pool of methane per year (and we know how it works, but bear with), NZ's total contribution is just under one teaspoon full.

And ½ of that is [allegedly] from our cows and sheep, none of it is from vegetation decomposing as it does.

And that's "what causes climate change"

Bonkers isn't it?

FonterraFarmer · Jun 9, 2022

Yale said:
Just as an aside.

Current world temperatures are at the 30 year average. Funny enough haven’t seen that on the news.

Ice in the Arctic IIRC is at the same level over summer however winter temps have been slightly higher than average due to water vapour.

The science on climate change is not settled,global cooling is a far greater risk to humanity than warming.

If the poles warm relative to the tropics it means there is less contrast in temps therefore weather events become less extreme.

This was proved by last year’s hurricane season being relatively benign.

Facts are out there however they are buried under government agendas.

Antarctic Sea ice is actually increasing in complete contrast to the predictions of global warming....

FonterraFarmer · Jun 9, 2022

Dead Rabbits said:
The covid 19 response was an interesting watch world wide. No doubt

Locally it was painfull if you had a working TV, no one should have to see those equine chompers every day....

kiwi pom · Jun 9, 2022

DaveGrohl said:
Wrong question. That’s the problem.

Farming has emissions.
It also has absorption of CO2 into grain, grass, wool, muscles etc. Humans then eat some of these and release the carbon back into the atmosphere. Ergo humans emit carbon. We must tax humans.
Farming also has sequestration into the soil.

Other industries? Not so much. Go on, tell me which other industries absorb/sequester carbon? Forestry … and …………………..

Your govt above all others in the world should be doing everything they can to:
1. Understand the science.
2. Lead the way in asking the proper questions, thereby avoiding "solutions" that won’t actually work in helping the actual problem.

delilah said:
No. The point of the thread is to establish whether there is any rational basis to the NZ policy. Or whether, in the words of the OP, the World has gone f***ing mad.

There is no rational basis to the policy, as you can fanny about with livestock burps till the cows come home and it wont make a blind bit of difference to mankinds impact on the climate. Yes ?

For the hundredth time, the issue is about reducing emissions. It doesn't matter that you think its the wrong question or don't agree with it, Labour is going to do it, with or without farmers input, the greens have much stricter plans and even National, should they get back in will do something.
Perhaps no different than when subs were scrapped back in the day?
NZ isn't the UK or US for that matter, its a hard place to farm. We can easily feed our population with a much reduced Ag community, so if you're only thinking locally, like the current crowd, its easy to reduce emissions and look good on a global scale. They just forget that our Ag exports are what pays the bills.
Its exactly what you want @delilah get NZ out of the game and countries will have to rely on food from elsewhere, which may be more local.
Some farmers will probably pack up, but many others will adapt and battle on, its what Kiwis do. Those that sell up may benefit from a carbon farming buyer and as there's no capital gains tax here, they'll keep all the sale money.
In 10 years the thinking may be different and the government will be chucking money at people to get back into food production.

kiwi pom · Jun 9, 2022

Dead Rabbits said:
The covid 19 response was an interesting watch world wide. No doubt

I think the most interesting take away from the Kiwi response is that by and large the population went along with it.
I don't know what conclusions you draw from that?

FonterraFarmer · Jun 9, 2022

kiwi pom said:
I think the most interesting take away from the Kiwi response is that by and large the population went along with it.
I don't know what conclusions you draw from that?

Equally the PM went with the eradicate/elimination strategy and then deliberately let Covid-19 in and let it out of control no different to the rest of the world.
How can we take any PM who inflicts two completely opposite strategies and then let them think they have been a great success???

While Muldoon may have had his flaws, he had a lot less options because of global circumstances and in some ways now seems somewhat more visionary and forward thinking than the current PM.
Equally our current PM doesn't set a very high benchmark.

Kiwi Pete · Jun 9, 2022

SilliamWhale said:
Bonkers isn't it?

It's a crazy state of affairs. It has to be borne in mind that although it's convenient to "blame the government" it's not them, government/politics is pure theatre.

DaveGrohl · Jun 9, 2022

kiwi pom said:
For the hundredth time, the issue is about reducing emissions. It doesn't matter that you think its the wrong question or don't agree with it, Labour is going to do it, with or without farmers input, the greens have much stricter plans and even National, should they get back in will do something.
Perhaps no different than when subs were scrapped back in the day?
NZ isn't the UK or US for that matter, its a hard place to farm. We can easily feed our population with a much reduced Ag community, so if you're only thinking locally, like the current crowd, its easy to reduce emissions and look good on a global scale. They just forget that our Ag exports are what pays the bills.
Its exactly what you want @delilah get NZ out of the game and countries will have to rely on food from elsewhere, which may be more local.
Some farmers will probably pack up, but many others will adapt and battle on, its what Kiwis do. Those that sell up may benefit from a carbon farming buyer and as there's no capital gains tax here, they'll keep all the sale money.
In 10 years the thinking may be different and the government will be chucking money at people to get back into food production.

It really isn't. It's about politicians forcing foolish policies on the public. Policies which will not achieve their stated goals for the simple that the "science" and aims of the policy aren't valid.

FonterraFarmer · Jun 9, 2022

Kiwi Pete said:
It's a crazy state of affairs. It has to be borne in mind that although it's convenient to "blame the government" it's not them, government/politics is pure theatre.

Drama in Canada's case....

Kiwi Pete · Jun 10, 2022

DaveGrohl said:
It really isn't. It's about politicians forcing foolish policies on the public. Policies which will not achieve their stated goals for the simple that the "science" and aims of the policy aren't valid.

It's intended to reduce emissions of methane by a certain percentage by a certain date.

The glaring problem with their project is that we could eliminate livestock completely and the same methane will still be emitted, because it is a product of decomposition of vegetation.

If we want to cut methane by 30% then we need our landscape to grow 30% less biomass that's capable of decomposing - what we really DON'T NEED are clevercuñts who say that they can put this gene or this tech into the animal, because it's ultimately pointless in terms of the methane reduction target.

We can adapt to farming with less vegetation on the landscape?

Interesting concept, in regards to climate change goals.

Personally I think there are two options

-we can repeat patterns of the past - that is to say we continue using a flawed way of thinking

-or, we can evolve the way in which we think and solve problems

there's no middle ground on this topic, and that's the distinction between adaptation and evolution

kiwi pom · Jun 10, 2022

DaveGrohl said:
It really isn't. It's about politicians forcing foolish policies on the public. Policies which will not achieve their stated goals for the simple that the "science" and aims of the policy aren't valid.

I think we agree, however they're doing it anyway.
Fortunately you live in the UK, so it won't cause you much of a problem.
It might even push up the price of food there, which should benefit local farmers.

delilah · Jun 10, 2022

kiwi pom said:
I think we agree, however they're doing it anyway.
Fortunately you live in the UK, so it won't cause you much of a problem.
It might even push up the price of food there, which should benefit local farmers.

It is being driven by global corporations. We face the same threat. Clue is in the 'global'. We either fight this together, or we go down together.

Worlds gone f***ing mad!

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100% I’ve had enough of farming!

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