breed fat lambs or pedigree flock

Unknown12

Member
Livestock Farmer
I have a mix of pure Charolais ewes and mules and wanting to go with one or the other either breed fat lambs or breed Charolais tups, which would be more profitable and how would I go about doing the pure breds properly , sell as tup lambs run on as shearlings and dose it matter if there registered ect cheers.
 

Longlowdog

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Aberdeenshire
If you don't pay the society their reg' fees it is a bit harsh to try to sell 'Pedigree sheep'.....
Pedigree registered sheep takes a lot of thought if you want to make money from them rather than have a hobby.
A.I and E.T work cost a pretty penny, even synchronising for early lambing to put you on a parallel but not necessarily level playing field with the big boys costs a fair bit more in early feed and creep feed etc till the good grass comes.
Are you free to lamb on Christmas day? Others make themselves free.
Are you content to sell equally well bred sheep for 1/10th of what a big name can sell identical embryos for till you get a better name or repeat customers? Are you able to process that the offspring of a 10 grand tup and a five grand ewe can still be worth minimum upset if you don't have a name in the game? Can you watch a big name sell a crap animal with a dipped back and down on it fetlocks for a small fortune because they have a name when your pride and joy has just sold for 400 quid?
Ask why I know the above...been there got the t-shirt. Still got the sheep but I just dialed down the expectations, stopped chasing the names and started keeping what I liked and enjoyed looking at my stock and accepting what I got paid was what others thought they were worth. They cover their costs and not a lot more if I'm honest.
If you'd like to make money at some point in the future bear in mind its a long game, if you need to make a wee bit money this time next year grow fat lambs.
 

Moors Lad

Member
Location
N Yorks
^^^^^
Some useful answers. I think with "pedigree" breeding you do really have to have a real interest in the breed you`ve chosen and a good "eye" for stock and for what your potential customers want, plus it takes time to get a name/reputation....
You can get a lot of satisfaction selling good well-finished fat lambs at a good price so don`t be afraid to take that route.....
 

neilo

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Montgomeryshire
I have a mix of pure Charolais ewes and mules and wanting to go with one or the other either breed fat lambs or breed Charolais tups, which would be more profitable and how would I go about doing the pure breds properly , sell as tup lambs run on as shearlings and dose it matter if there registered ect cheers.

I run a few Charollais ewes, selling yearling tups, and have done for (scarily) 31 years. They do alright financially, but up and down, and they’ll never make us rich. I do know though, that we have lower feed & marketing costs than most, so plenty will be losing hand over fist if they ever worked it out. I currently lamb around 150 pedigree ewes, as a part time enterprise alongside a commercial flock and arable cropping.

Whenever I’ve sat down to work out costings (a habit I try to avoid), the crossbred sheep earn more per ha, or per £ of capital invested. With current lamb prices, the commercial sheep would make the economics of the pedigree flock even more laughable.

However, we all need a hobby, and I get to avoid buying in crossing tups, so saving several £k going out each year, as well as getting to marvel at the magnificence, every year, of the best ram I’ve ever bred….. shortly before it dies of something ridiculous. :banghead:

As for keeping Charollais x mules as commercial females, are you insane? You’ve presumably seen how terrible Charollais are, in terms of both maternal ability and lactation persistency, so why on earth would you want to keep their daughters as a commercial flock? I have about 50 crossbred Charollais ewes and I curse them all, at every lambing time! My experience of other bloodlines, and our recording going back 30 years, show our Charollais as being well above average on maternal traits, but they’re still p*ss poor compared to the Highlander based commercial flock.

To surmise, stick with a proper commercial breed, producing finished lambs….. unless you want an addictive hobby that’ll pay it’s way (at best).
 

Unknown12

Member
Livestock Farmer
I run a few Charollais ewes, selling yearling tups, and have done for (scarily) 31 years. They do alright financially, but up and down, and they’ll never make us rich. I do know though, that we have lower feed & marketing costs than most, so plenty will be losing hand over fist if they ever worked it out. I currently lamb around 150 pedigree ewes, as a part time enterprise alongside a commercial flock and arable cropping.

Whenever I’ve sat down to work out costings (a habit I try to avoid), the crossbred sheep earn more per ha, or per £ of capital invested. With current lamb prices, the commercial sheep would make the economics of the pedigree flock even more laughable.

However, we all need a hobby, and I get to avoid buying in crossing tups, so saving several £k going out each year, as well as getting to marvel at the magnificence, every year, of the best ram I’ve ever bred….. shortly before it dies of something ridiculous. :banghead:

As for keeping Charollais x mules as commercial females, are you insane? You’ve presumably seen how terrible Charollais are, in terms of both maternal ability and lactation persistency, so why on earth would you want to keep their daughters as a commercial flock? I have about 50 crossbred Charollais ewes and I curse them all, at every lambing time! My experience of other bloodlines, and our recording going back 30 years, show our Charollais as being well above average on maternal traits, but they’re still p*ss poor compared to the Highlander based commercial flock.

To surmise, stick with a proper commercial breed, producing finished lambs….. unless you want an addictive hobby that’ll pay it’s way (at best).
Thank you the Charolais mule ewe lambs from this year are looking like they will make big strong sheep so I was thinking of keeping them instead of paying silly money for some replacements at sheep sales
 

neilo

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Montgomeryshire
Thank you the Charolais mule ewe lambs from this year are looking like they will make big strong sheep so I was thinking of keeping them instead of paying silly money for some replacements at sheep sales

They will certainly be big strong sheep, but compared to their dams, they will have bigger appetites, poorer maternal abilities and poorer lactation persistency. If you already run pure Charollais ewes alongside mules, then you will already know that I guess.

They will have good 3/4 Charollais lambs of course, but the premium won't be enough to cover the hassle and extra costs.
 

Unknown12

Member
Livestock Farmer
what would you recommend buying / breeding to make a quality commercial flock, I’ve worked with sheep for a long time but only just starting to get my own flock growing and thriving and after abit of management advice
 

unlacedgecko

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Fife
what would you recommend buying / breeding to make a quality commercial flock, I’ve worked with sheep for a long time but only just starting to get my own flock growing and thriving and after abit of management advice

A low input self replacing maternal female. Exactly what breed (or combination) and what it looks like is entirely down to you.

Decide on your system, keep in the same and cull anything which doesn't perform. You'll soon breed a flock which fits.
 

neilo

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Montgomeryshire
If you want to keep females from your own mules, you'd be far better off with a Texel (especially a more maternal/less extreme type) cross than a Charollais IME. That doesn't help you for the next cross, as too many crosses of a Texel and you'll be assisting more lambings.

Personally, I run a Highlander based composite flock, having incorporated a bit of Lleyn and NZ Texel into the mix too. They do everything I want them to do, apart from needing shearing, so dabbling in trying to breed the wool off them for now. I'm more interested in reducing costs and work these days than topping the mart. Been there and done that, but a low cost system leaves more at the end of the year IME.

Everyone has different aims and ideas though, and there's more than one way to crack an egg.
 

gwi1890

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
North wales
what would you recommend buying / breeding to make a quality commercial flock, I’ve worked with sheep for a long time but only just starting to get my own flock growing and thriving and after abit of management advice
All depends what you view as quality, i.e a smaller maternal ewe that weans her own bodyweight and looks after herself or near terminal ewes that produce market toppers but with added costs and labour. Both can be as equally enjoyable and there’s no right or wrong.
 

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