Overseeding clover- which one??

Ffermer Bach said:

I have a feeling climate change is partly driven by changes in water cycles, these are driven by land use, but the changed water cycles then affect the land/vegetation cover which feeds back to alter water cycles etc. I wonder if you are alluding to changes in the local water cycles? As a general rule I am pretty anti mass tree planting, but clouds are formed around bacteria plumes that rise from forested areas.

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climate change, or changing climate, certainly affecting us. But pretty obvious water cycle is different, bore hole goes into an underground river, 20 metres wide, and no shortage of water there, anyway, that's what we were told, and what we have to believe.
But springs are dry, streams dry, for most of its journey through us, something that was last seen in 75/6, short periods excepted. Its years in a row now.
So you work around it, or you wait and see, if next years better, done both, and the former, is a damn sight better, than the latter.

In the pit said:

The bit I don’t get is why your feeding hay/silage but you’ve got fields shut up for silage .

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feeding red clover to cows, isn't really a good idea, and that protein, should save us more money going through the fresh calvers in winter, than the cost of the hay now. Was hoping for the forecast rain, so slowing down the rotation, but they lied again, we had a sprinkle. But, having been short of winter grub, buying it in, is never as good, as your own quality silage.
Interestingly, we farm some pp, a mile away, and that is growing quite well, after silageing, different soil, virtually all our non milking cattle, are over there.

In the pit said:

The bit I don’t get is why your feeding hay/silage but you’ve got fields shut up for silage .

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but you commented on how l was feeding silage grass, to my cows, when in fact, that grass length, is the most economical length, for us to feed, in a dry time.

As farmers, we are told, this, or that way, is the 'correct' way to feed our cows, one thing is overlooked, you can train cows, to adapt to your 'system', classic example, hols won't graze, but they very quickly adapt to grazing, when they have learnt there is no nice buffer, waiting in the yard. Our mainly hols, only wait by the gate, when weathers shite, normally they are very slow, to get in for milking. Neighbour's often stood up for 2 hrs, waiting at the gate.

Nothing wrong with feeding red clover to cows ,just have to be careful
Every time you shut up a field for silage you increase your stocking rate on your grazing paddocks which in turn puts more pressure on the grass to grow and a shorter rotation

In the pit said:

Nothing wrong with feeding red clover to cows ,just have to be careful
Every time you shut up a field for silage you increase your stocking rate on your grazing paddocks which in turn puts more pressure on the grass to grow and a shorter rotation

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plenty of acres, 90 acres for cow grazing now, nearly .5ac/cow, when we have cut 2nd cut, another 30 will go in. Deem high protein silage, with fresh calved hols, to be more cost efficient, than now, would be nice to shut it up again, but could be grazed, if needed.
Never know, might rain, and we will have plenty of grass. Or we could cut our corn, for w/crop. If we thought we needed to.

But have had to buy winter fodder for the cows, its never cheap, if you have to fetch it, its not consistent. Fresh calvers, in full production gear, need consistency, cows approaching drying off, don't need the same level. So winter fodder, is of greater importance, than summer, for us, and we can't be doing to badly, the autumn calvers are still av 25l/day. And l think that cows get used to, and adapt, to whatever system you have. Bought 3 cows, from a housed herd, took about a week, to learn, waiting at the gate, didn't mean they got a buffer feed, dropped their milk about 5 litres, surprised it wasn't more, quite happy eating grass.

Every farm/farmer is different, even fields differ, you just have to find the right balance, for what is best, on your farm, which may well be different, than what you think it is. If l looked back, principles of grazing, have changed numerous times, over the past 50 yrs, and we have all adapted, or changed to, those different ways, who is to say, the previous way, or the present ways, are right, or wrong ? Each, in their own way, suited some, better than others, but we all need a degree of flexibility, in our systems.

250 acres here for 175 cows plus followers , that’s enough acres and as soon as it rains will hopefully cut 100/150 acres to fully full the last pit
I only shut up and cut the surplus
The thing what makes me laugh is people going out one gate and feeding silage to there cows while bringing in grass and clamping it
Instead of using the tractor 10 times the cow can do it herself
I’m fully 12 week autumn block

120 hectares/300 acres of grass for 57 cows and all youngstock finished on farm . Bulls finished at 20 months old and heifers at 36 months. Its cheaper here to farm extensively!

Just been for a walk on the East Sussex Downs , farmer here busy putting silage bales out for the beef cows ,at home in Wales we have an abundance of grass

Check this out on Agriland - Beef Focus: ‘Growing multi-species swards requires a total mindset change’
https://www.agriland.co.uk/farming-...ecies-swards-requires-a-total-mindset-change/

more than one way, to produce forage, some are better than others.
All that matters, is to keep good quality forage, in front of your cattle, how you do it, is up to you.
l get a lot of stick, for the way we graze, doesn't worry me at all, seems to worry others though.
In the southern half of the UK, seems to get drier each yr, so one needs to look further away from the 'normal'.

Herbal leys, have attracted a lot of interest, seed sales are increasing quite rapidly, one could say GS4 payments, but it predates that.
And why not, if, if they achieve the results 'promised', the big word is if. Simply put, you can produce more forage, on a DM basis, than you can get from a typical r/grass, white clover ley, with no fert, other than P & K, wonderful.
To go fully down that road, l would want to see visible proof. We have some simple herbal leys, and can agree, they keep going longer than prg, and cows like them. Next year forward, might have a run of wet summers, and no need of deeper rooted plants, or, it might be another dry run, we don't know, but that goes with the job, we take a gamble, on every crop we sow, how much will it yield, what the value will be, just the same with livestock.

The worst thing we can do, in farming, is not to listen to new ideas, methods, or crops, or even technology, some will work, others won't, but we learn, along the path.
Farming, is a vibrant forward looking industry, although we are suspicious of new ideas, we absorb them into the industry. We also happen to be the most important industry, although we are treated like the worst. Without farming, life span quickly reduces.