Managing pasture by cutting and leaving long grass?

eastdevonhobbyist

Member
Mixed Farmer
Hi, inexperienced small land owner here with a few acres of pasture. Normally I would have my pasture mown for hay once a year and grazed by sheep later in the year, which keeps the grass under control but the soil organic matter is 4% and I want to get it higher. I have quite quite a bit of dock and a large and growing patch of creeping thistle.

Recently I have planted several rows of trees across the pasture to help provide shade, fix nitrogen and increase biodiversity. The trees are currently about 1m tall and are in tree shelters supported by stakes.

Currently the grass is flowering, with stalks of around 50cm and a thick understory of green grass.

Due to the small trees it's not practical to bring in livestock this year (sheep break the stakes by rubbing on them and the shape of the rows means it's not practical to put in temporary fencing). And as well as that I haven't been offered a good price for the hay, so I'm considering this year simply mowing the grass and leaving the "hay" in place to rot.

I'm thinking this might prevent the pasture turning to thicket and also boost soil organic matter.

On the other hand the mowing could smother the grass and preference the stronger weeds.

The dock has already seeded but the thistle hasn't yet.

Any thoughts or advice? How should I manage a pasture for a few years without livestock until the trees are bigger, to promote long term grass productivity as well as soil health?

Thanks for any help!
 

SwanFarm

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Enniskillen
I'm in a similar position just getting some land that hasn't been touched in over a year. Taking a long time to finalise the sale so not sure I'll get it in time to do much with it so contemplating just mowing it ready for livestock next time. Lovely range of plants and grasses in it. Might experiment with some of it but we'll see.
 

IOW91

Member
Livestock Farmer
If you are planning on cutting grass and not clearing it you want to use a flail topper to mulch it up so it can rot down.

If you used mower on thick grass and just left it without baling it then it would be a real mess. It would kill the grass under the row and take ages to breakdown.

Best option would be to mow and clear for hay/haylage if possible. Would help to keep the paddock tidy.
 

egbert

Member
Livestock Farmer
Another option may be https://cactustreeguards.co.uk/ these seem to work ---we use them to protect young trees with cattle and sheep in the pasture
Ah.....sawmillers ruin! (from my own inept experience, the butt swell will be engulfing the bottom row of mesh before you know it)

Do the cattle not scratch their backsides against the things? I suspect I've bulls which would think they were put there for that very purpose
 

Tim W

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Wiltshire
Ah.....sawmillers ruin! (from my own inept experience, the butt swell will be engulfing the bottom row of mesh before you know it)

Do the cattle not scratch their backsides against the things? I suspect I've bulls which would think they were put there for that very purpose

1st year here but i haven't seen any scratch problems from sheep or cattle

You need to remove them before they get absorbed by the tree i guess?
 

Jackov Altraids

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Devon
Currently the grass is flowering, with stalks of around 50cm and a thick understory of green grass.

Due to the small trees it's not practical to bring in livestock this year (sheep break the stakes by rubbing on them and the shape of the rows means it's not practical to put in temporary fencing). And as well as that I haven't been offered a good price for the hay, so I'm considering this year simply mowing the grass and leaving the "hay" in place to rot.


The dock has already seeded but the thistle hasn't yet.

It really depends on what you expect / want from your "few acres of pasture" but it sounds like you should have given your grass to anyone who was willing to take it.
A few acres with lines of trees in odd shapes will cost far more to cut and harvest than it's worth, even before the docks had gone to seed.
This is entirely irrelevant if your ultimate aim is to 'rewild' it all but if your intention is to keep pasture then it really needs managing which really requires the bulk of that 50cm being removed.
As suggested, mulching with a flail is the best option otherwise.

I have visions of some locals with similar situations who have ended up cutting it all with a ride on mower. It looks nice but is not very good for the environment.
 

Dry Rot

Member
Livestock Farmer
Just to play Devil's Advocate, but by taking hay/haylage or grazing with stock, aren't you removing the nutrients in the form of fodder or meat/hides, etc? In 'normal' farming, that will be replaced with artificials and lime.

I was taught that topping was the best way to preserve unused grassland and that should be done before the grass had put up seed heads because flowering exhausts the grass by wasting energy? "It is the aim of every living thing to reproduce. That is what defines life".

Having (almost) got rid of the horses, I have a lot of grass, especially where grazed by the horses (sorry about that!). That's because I don't do what many horse owners do and pick up after my horses. I harrow the manure and rest the field. Yes, horses graze closer than sheep and can destroy grassland by grazing out all the taller species, but given time to recover it will flourish. Horse poo is excellent fertiliser, ask any rose grower. At least it does here on my sandy soil which won't grow much without dung.

Edited to say I've cut about 3 acres so far which has never had much fertiliser and got a very good crop.
 

Jackov Altraids

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Devon
Just to play Devil's Advocate, but by taking hay/haylage or grazing with stock, aren't you removing the nutrients in the form of fodder or meat/hides, etc? In 'normal' farming, that will be replaced with artificials and lime.

I was taught that topping was the best way to preserve unused grassland and that should be done before the grass had put up seed heads because flowering exhausts the grass by wasting energy? "It is the aim of every living thing to reproduce. That is what defines life".

Having (almost) got rid of the horses, I have a lot of grass, especially where grazed by the horses (sorry about that!). That's because I don't do what many horse owners do and pick up after my horses. I harrow the manure and rest the field. Yes, horses graze closer than sheep and can destroy grassland by grazing out all the taller species, but given time to recover it will flourish. Horse poo is excellent fertiliser, ask any rose grower. At least it does here on my sandy soil which won't grow much without dung.

Edited to say I've cut about 3 acres so far which has never had much fertiliser and got a very good crop.

I think in most cases, grazing animals put back most of the nutrients and get their energy from the sugars produced through photosynthesis. If not over-stocked, nutrients wouldn't often need replacing.
I believe horse manure is an excellent consistency for composting but has about the lowest nutrient content of any animal manure.
Topping is good management but the description seems to indicate that there is too much growth too dissipate without killing a considerable amount of vegetation. This could be a good thing if you want to 'rewild'.
 

Ffermer Bach

Member
Livestock Farmer
but the soil organic matter is 4% and I want to get it higher.

My advice for that would be, allow the fields to grow very high, then subdivide into small paddocks and see if you could get someone with a few cattle to "mob graze", working on the principle of eat 1/3, leave 1/3 and trample 1/3, then move on to the next paddock, maybe twice a day moves or I guess even more often would get a better result. And maybe 60 day rest periods for each paddock.

You will need water pipe over the field, with a series of connectors to move the water trough as the cattle move, and a pipe of poly wire for the electric fence.

Organic matter gets "into" the soil, by, the plant using photosynthesis to harvest energy from the sun (and nutrients from the soil), using this to grow organic matter, then to really supercharge the system, cattle treading that organic matter back into the soil, where dung beetles, worms and other other soil fauna/flora take it into the soil, plus, the plants will "give" sugars to the soil fungi in exchange for nutrients, so adding Carbon, and as plants are reduced in size, so their roots will die off again adding organic matter.

If it was mine, as much as I like trees, I would chop up the trees from the middle of the fields, plant hedges round the edges (with hedge row trees maybe every 10 yards, any less than that, and I don't think I would get a hedge cutting contractor to bother coming, even that may be too close!). I think planting lines of trees over the fields will seriously devalue your asset. Fine, if you want to accept that, as it is yours, but still in my opinion bit silly. Or at least, plant straight lines, parallel, and two tramlines apart!
 

Ffermer Bach

Member
Livestock Farmer
Topping is good management

We seem to be entering a period of food shortages, owning land that could produce a bit of food, is it really right, to not do that, instead burn fossil fuels (which add to global warming) instead of growing healthy nutrient dense food for people and build soil fertility at the same time?
 

egbert

Member
Livestock Farmer
1st year here but i haven't seen any scratch problems from sheep or cattle

You need to remove them before they get absorbed by the tree i guess?
I've been watching a tree slowly growing around one of those round iron railing guards for some decades locally.
It's just about gone now.....some lucky soul will find it one day!
 

Jackov Altraids

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Devon
Topping is good management

We seem to be entering a period of food shortages, owning land that could produce a bit of food, is it really right, to not do that, instead burn fossil fuels (which add to global warming) instead of growing healthy nutrient dense food for people and build soil fertility at the same time?
I guess that question is aimed at me. . . .
I should have said 'can be' good management.
If you keep livestock all year round, the grass should get away from you in June and July or you'll never have enough at other times.
Ideally this extra grass should be harvested but topping off seed heads at the right time takes very little fuel and increases productivity and builds soil fertility.
It would be good if the OP would give a better indication of his ultimate intentions as that hugely affects what would be the best advice.
At the moment, it seems as if they want extra trees, extra biodiversity and the same income for selling the grass and grazing. ELMS should square that circle but it isn't yet.
 
Last edited:

Ffermer Bach

Member
Livestock Farmer
I guess that question is aimed at me. . . .
I should have said 'can be' good management.
If you could livestock all year round, the grass should get away from you in June and July or you'll never have enough at other times.
Ideally this extra grass should be harvested but topping off seed heads at the right time takes very little fuel and increases productivity and builds soil fertility.
It would be good if the OP would give a better indication of his ultimate intentions as that hugely affects what would be the best advice.
At the moment, it seems as if they want extra trees, extra biodiversity and the same income for selling the grass and grazing. ELMS should square that circle but it isn't yet.
and I think we need to know, how many acres, where the trees are in relation to the field etc etc, I wasn't really aiming my comment to you, as I top here, rather, the ethics of topping what could be growing food.
 

egbert

Member
Livestock Farmer
I guess that question is aimed at me. . . .
I should have said 'can be' good management.
If you keep livestock all year round, the grass should get away from you in June and July or you'll never have enough at other times.
Ideally this extra grass should be harvested but topping off seed heads at the right time takes very little fuel and increases productivity and builds soil fertility.
It would be good if the OP would give a better indication of his ultimate intentions as that hugely affects what would be the best advice.
At the moment, it seems as if they want extra trees, extra biodiversity and the same income for selling the grass and grazing. ELMS should square that circle but it isn't yet.
In headage payment days, I scoffed at the idea of a topper - and indeed, ne'er needed such a thing.
Ideally, any summer surplus would be being baled to keep hungry sucklers through the winter, or at least deferred for later grazing.

Now?.... I do find myself using such a tool a bit.
 

Longlowdog

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Aberdeenshire
If you mow with what most of us consider a mower i.e something that leaves whole stems cut an inch or two above the ground it will rot in the rows and be visible this time next year.
I would flail mow it. I flail a couple of small fields that the sheep don't really like with a little 16hp Kubota tractor with a 4' mower and they recover very quickly.
I do think you have fallen into the trap of believing everything on a smallholding has value as it does on a larger scale. Someone may have offered to buy hay from a small field when it was a nice rectangle but surely you've seen the size of the kit used to make hay...no-one wants to play dodge the trees in a small field with a 9' mower or a big baler. When your hay is fit to make so is the hay on the all the neighbouring 40 acre fields. Someone might nip out a wee field on the way home from a big one if it's easy but not the moment they have to fanny about.
As someone above said the trees dotted around are liabilities to all further work in there. Plant hedges with standard trees in. Arbori-pasture doesn't work well for anyone on a tiny scale. They are a faff to establish the trees, they are awkward to mow, especially if you have planted wriggly lines and when a bit older they shed branches in high wind for the mowers to find.
It is probably time to take stock of what your objective is. Is it a field, a set aside to develop in its own time with perhaps a bit of human intervention to hasten the process or do you want a wood to grow there?
Sorry to sound negative but I've been there with all the grand ideas about creating nirvana in my own back yard and learned that without the benefits of scale some things really just make life harder, cost more than the basic projections would lead you to budget for and often actually just look half 4rsed.
Double fence, plant very diverse hedges with standards and some fruit trees and this time of year the scent will be intoxicating and there will be fruit for wildlife in autumn and trees doing there thang without rendering the whole unusable.
 

DaveGrohl

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Cumbria
Ah.....sawmillers ruin! (from my own inept experience, the butt swell will be engulfing the bottom row of mesh before you know it)

Do the cattle not scratch their backsides against the things? I suspect I've bulls which would think they were put there for that very purpose
They should maybe read the very excellent Anton Coaker article in the Agriculture section about this very subject. I’m sure you’d agree @egbert . Have you had a chance to read it yet? It really is very good :)
 

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