Seed mix

Razor8 · Jul 18, 2022

Looking for recommendations for a seed mix

Will be direct drilled in shallow soil, on a outfarm that will be set stocked with sheep

something that works well in shoulders of year that doesn’t need loads of fertilizer

ph good & index 4 for p & k although I’m doubting these results & believe the Morgan’s test isn’t reliable due to very high molybdenum

@Great In Grass

M-J-G · Jul 18, 2022

I've used Barmix (or similar) in the past, along with plenty of clover, as long as you can graze it tight early in the season to keep the Cocksfoot under control
It handles dry weather quite well and doesn't need a great deal of fertiliser

Great In Grass · Jul 18, 2022

M-J-G said:
I've used Barmix (or similar) in the past, along with plenty of clover, as long as you can graze it tight early in the season to keep the Cocksfoot under control
It handles dry weather quite well and doesn't need a great deal of fertiliser

I too was going to say Barmix it's popularity has risen dramatically these past few years with rising fertiliser costs and the drier weather.

A very productive long-term ley, ideal for early lambing, followed by season-long grazing or silage production.

Management is the key as Tall Fescue and Cocksfoot grow very rapidly, particularly in early spring, so to maintain the sward in its optimum condition, it is strongly recommended to either tightly graze the sward from late winter or take an early silage cut. This stops the grass from becoming too strong and remaining highly palatable to grazing animals or giving the best combination of quality and quantity when conserved. Throughout the growing year, Barmix is best managed tightly to prevent the grasses from becoming too stemmy and maintain a high proportion of leaf in the sward.

The guy who is the Barenbrug UK forage manager lives in NI and I am more than happy to pass his telephone number on to you, drop me a message.

Razor8 · Jul 18, 2022

What’s in the mix?

Derrick Hughes · Jul 18, 2022

Razor8 said:
What’s in the mix?

Is the ground very dry

neilo · Jul 18, 2022

I’ll put another vote in for Barmix too.
I only have one field of it, sown after fodder rape late in 2020, with seed from @Great In Grass . It has been grazed hard in early Spring, again in April, before taking a light/quality silage cut in late May/early June both years.
Last year we had a hot spell when I was going to take another quality cut, so made it into hay instead, then grazed on and off until December.
The only fertiliser it’s had is 4 cwt/ac of Fibrophos after the silage cuts, to replace offtake & feed the clover.
This is the field now, when the adjacent field (reseeded with long term pp last year) is nothing but 18” seedheads with a clover understorey. The only seedheads in the Barmix is the remnants of the kilo an ac of IRG that I chucked with the seed.

The mix was chosen for that field originally as we have the local show there every year in August, and wanted something that would stand that abuse. I’m now thinking all future long term leys going in ought to be Barmix (or similar).

neilo · Jul 18, 2022

Razor8 said:
What’s in the mix?

Supplier in NI that lists the varieties/species in it:

Barenbrug Barmix - Joseph Walls Agri Supplier

Long-term, low input, high output mix for beef & sheep enterprises A highly successful, persistent, drought tolerant, high protein sward for beef and sheep production from a clover-based sward BARMIX uses the best new cocksfoot and tall fescues to produce a highly palatable, very productive ley...

josephwallsonline.com

Razor8 · Jul 18, 2022

Derrick Hughes said:
Is the ground very dry

It wouldn’t be

Razor8 · Jul 18, 2022

neilo said:
I’ll put another vote in for Barmix too.
I only have one field of it, sown after fodder rape late in 2020, with seed from @Great In Grass . It has been grazed hard in early Spring, again in April, before taking a light/quality silage cut in late May/early June both years.
Last year we had a hot spell when I was going to take another quality cut, so made it into hay instead, then grazed on and off until December.
The only fertiliser it’s had is 4 cwt/ac of Fibrophos after the silage cuts, to replace offtake & feed the clover.
This is the field now, when the adjacent field (reseeded with long term pp last year) is nothing but 18” seedheads with a clover understorey. The only seedheads in the Barmix is the remnants of the kilo an ac of IRG that I chucked with the seed.

View attachment 1050324

The mix was chosen for that field originally as we have the local show there every year in August, and wanted something that would stand that abuse. I’m now thinking all future long term leys going in ought to be Barmix (or similar).

That some vote of confidence

If mine was a 1/4 good as that il be happy. Expensive year to do anything

what fertilizer did you use to get it established

Razor8 · Jul 18, 2022

the mix on website is different then the one from Walls

is there any significant differences?
@Great In Grass

Great In Grass · Jul 18, 2022

Razor8 said:
the mix on website is different then the one from Walls

is there any significant differences?
@Great In Grass

View attachment 1050364

Walls? That's ice cream!

Ask David when you speak to him.

It is probably a little different because they may have found the varieties in the "Walls" mix better suited to NI.

EDIT: I think they may have run out of Comer Timothy and Baraula Cocksfoot.

Derrick Hughes · Jul 18, 2022


[QUOTE="Razor8, post: 8243976, member: 256"]
It wouldn’t be
[/QUOTE]
For sheep if you don't have an issue with that ,then   late Perennial ,small leaf/ Medium Leaf White Clover and 1 kg of Timothy,  Chicory also works well but not if its hard set stocking perhaps , don't play about with Cocksfoot and Fescue

Great In Grass · Jul 18, 2022

Razor8 said:
It wouldn’t be

The Barmix works in most conditions from drought to waterlogged due to its deep (1.5mtr) penetrating Tall Fescue roots which draw minerals and nutrients from far below the surface.

Great In Grass · Jul 18, 2022

Derrick Hughes said:
[QUOTE="Razor8, post: 8243976, member: 256"] It wouldn’t be [/QUOTE] For sheep if you don't have an issue with that ,then late Perennial ,small leaf/ Medium Leaf White Clover and 1 kg of Timothy, Chicory also works well but not if its hard set stocking perhaps , [B][I]don't play about with Cocksfoot and Fescue[/I][/B]

I'm I allowed to say "what a load of bullocks!"

Derrick Hughes · Jul 18, 2022

Great In Grass said:
I'm I allowed to say "what a load of bullocks!"

Say what you like
But just remember he who resorts ti rudeness losses the argument

Sheep need a dence persistent sward to carry them over the winter , nothing will carry sheep better than late diploid Ryegrass
And if Cocksfoot and Fescue get up in mid summer he will have nothing but scald in the lambs
Good on drier ground though

But if he wants anymore convicing ,the ME of Tall Fescue is typically 9.5 ,the Me of Perennial Rygrass would be over 12

neilo · Jul 18, 2022

Razor8 said:
That some vote of confidence

If mine was a 1/4 good as that il be happy. Expensive year to do anything

what fertilizer did you use to get it established

The preceding crop was Redstart hybrid rape, DD’ed into sprayed of long term pp (it was apparently reseeded 35 years ago, with a 2 year ley

). That crop had a dose of Fibrophos and a 2 cwt/ac of Nitram, then nothing (apart from the muck from grazing of course) before drilling the grass in late September.

Very pleased with it, especially considering how the rest of the place is coping with the dry currently.

neilo · Jul 18, 2022

Derrick Hughes said:
Say what you like
But just remember he who resorts ti rudeness losses the argument

Sheep need a dence persistent sward to carry them over the winter , nothing will carry sheep better than late diploid Ryegrass
And if Cocksfoot and Fescue get up in mid summer he will have nothing but scald in the lambs
Good on drier ground though

But if he wants anymore convicing ,the ME of Tall Fescue is typically 9.5 ,the Me of Perennial Rygrass would be over 12

The bottom of the field in my photo lies very wet (I sprayed the rushes off before drilling the Redstart), and there was a Spring appeared halfway up the slope in the first winter making a big wet patch (but seems to have disappeared again now). The wet feet doesn’t seem to have hurt it, apart from there being a bit less clover on those wetter areas.

Most of the rest of the reseeding I’ve done here has been with late heading PRG, a kilo of Timothy and small/med white clovers (recently with Aberlasting clover). Without exception, those leys are shot to head from drought stress and, where I’ve topped them, they’ve bolted straight to head again.

On your feeding values, where do you get that information? From an Australian site, https://keys.lucidcentral.org/keys/v3/pastures/Html/Tall_fescue.htm
:

Feeding value

Tall fescue has a high nutritive value comparing favourably to perennial ryegrass and phalaris. Digestibility ranges from 60-80% DMD, metabolisble energy from 8.5-11.5 MJ and crude protein from 7.5-25%.

One thing I do know, the lambs that are currently grazing the Barmix have lifted since they went on there, having been bobbling on doing just 250 g/day on the headed PRG with a clover understorey previously. Vegetative Barmix can only be better feed than PRG that has bolted to head in the same conditions.

Derrick Hughes · Jul 18, 2022

Your buying your Ryegrass off the wrong company then

Picture taken an hour ago

Kevtherev · Jul 18, 2022

All getting a bit silly in here…..

Kevtherev · Jul 18, 2022

neilo said:
I’ll put another vote in for Barmix too.
I only have one field of it, sown after fodder rape late in 2020, with seed from @Great In Grass . It has been grazed hard in early Spring, again in April, before taking a light/quality silage cut in late May/early June both years.
Last year we had a hot spell when I was going to take another quality cut, so made it into hay instead, then grazed on and off until December.
The only fertiliser it’s had is 4 cwt/ac of Fibrophos after the silage cuts, to replace offtake & feed the clover.
This is the field now, when the adjacent field (reseeded with long term pp last year) is nothing but 18” seedheads with a clover understorey. The only seedheads in the Barmix is the remnants of the kilo an ac of IRG that I chucked with the seed.

View attachment 1050324

The mix was chosen for that field originally as we have the local show there every year in August, and wanted something that would stand that abuse. I’m now thinking all future long term leys going in ought to be Barmix (or similar).

Is that the one I cleaned ditch out on bottom of few years back?
The one full of poison frogs etc

Seed mix

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Feeding value​

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0 %

Up to 25%

25-50%

50-75%

75-100%

100% I’ve had enough of farming!

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Feeding value