£2.05 net profit/ewe

[farmerm]

I know the numbers in sheep production aren’t great but only £2/ewe and that is before we potentially loose a chunk of EU sales post Brexit, before BPS is slashed and after recent and future wage increases Future for high input sheep production certainly looks bleak!

 

[spin cycle]

isn't that 'additional' profit due to what they've done

 

[farmerm]

isn't that 'additional' profit due to what they've done

Nope. It would be after the Shepard’s salary though, I assume like me you are the Shepard’s so the figure we consider to be net profit is before we pay ourselves... you and I may find if we want to continue we have to cut our drawings, but you can’t cut those of an employee...

 

[neilo]

I know the numbers in sheep production aren’t great but only £2/ewe and that is before we potentially loose a chunk of EU sales post Brexit, before BPS is slashed and after recent and future wage increases Future for high input sheep production certainly looks bleak!
View attachment 853104

I would suggest that’s typical of most flocks in the UK, running a high cost system and with only moderate output (1.68 reared). Output really needs to be higher to cover high costs, or you’re getting hit from both sides.

 

[farmerm]

I would suggest that’s typical of most flocks in the UK, running a high cost system and with only moderate output (1.68 reared). Output really needs to be higher to cover high costs, or you’re getting hit from both sides.

I am not saying it isn't typical but it certainly isn't going to be a sustainable farming model. That's not to say my small moderate input, low output flock fairs much better. We either need sheep that rear 36 lambs like a year like a modern pig.

 

[Estate fencing.]

I am not saying it isn't typical but it certainly isn't going to be a sustainable farming model. That's not to say my small moderate input, low output flock fairs much better. We either need sheep that rear 36 lambs like a year like a modern pig.

No we don’t. We need to keep sheep how sheep are meant to be kept and not force the job. Ewes needn’t cost very much to keep at all if the are lambed relative to the grass growth. Why do people feed ewes £15 of cake and creep the lambs £7 just so they can lamb in early March and hit a poor market. My ewes cost about £45 to keep for year including labour and lamb in late April early May at 160%.

 

[lloyd]

No we don’t. We need to keep sheep how sheep are meant to be kept and not force the job. Ewes needn’t cost very much to keep at all if the are lambed relative to the grass growth. Why do people feed ewes £15 of cake and creep the lambs £7 just so they can lamb in early March and hit a poor market. My ewes cost about £45 to keep for year including labour and lamb in late April early May at 160%.

Higher stocking rate but people would generally lamb earlier
than March if you're going to spend on creep.
You either go early and sell the lambs end of April to the end of May
then cull the old ewes or go late and keep your feed costs down.

 

[neilo]

Higher stocking rate but people would generally lamb earlier
than March if you're going to spend on creep.
You either go early and sell the lambs end of April to the end of May
then cull the old ewes or go late and keep your feed costs down.

I agree, you need to do one or the other. High input systems can work OK, as long as you have high returns, either through output or prices. Plenty of March lambers creeping round here normally.

 

[farmerm]

No we don’t. We need to keep sheep how sheep are meant to be kept and not force the job. Ewes needn’t cost very much to keep at all if the are lambed relative to the grass growth. Why do people feed ewes £15 of cake and creep the lambs £7 just so they can lamb in early March and hit a poor market. My ewes cost about £45 to keep for year including labour and lamb in late April early May at 160%.

I don't disagree. My point badly made with the pig example is pig and poultry production efficiency has greatly increased since our grandparents generation. I don't think we have made equivalent productivity gains in the sheep sector, in some cases we have probably gone backwards. It would make a lot of sense to outdoor lamb mid April here but I have other work commitments that already make April and May silly season. I would need to take the NZ approach, essentially leave them alone at lambing and take a trip round to pick up the dead ones at the weekend....

 

[SteveHants]

Is that £2 gross profit per ewe (ie after labour is paid for)?

 

[primmiemoo]

The statistic is an odd boast, though. I'm sure the motley mob here make more than that, net, and there's absolutely no boast in that, either. Without seeing drawings/wages, or costs of mechanical systems (some get complicated), it's going to be difficult to apply that figure as a rule of thumb measure.

As a completely knee-jerk assessment, something big will have to give in the system shown in the OP, not just a reduction in oral anti-b's - that should be used sparingly in any case.

 

[SteveHants]

I don't disagree. My point badly made with the pig example is pig and poultry production efficiency has greatly increased since our grandparents generation. I don't think we have made equivalent productivity gains in the sheep sector, in some cases we have probably gone backwards. It would make a lot of sense to outdoor lamb mid April here but I have other work commitments that already make April and May silly season. I would need to take the NZ approach, essentially leave them alone at lambing and take a trip round to pick up the dead ones at the weekend....

Having worked with P&P, we are miles behind. They have mapped the pig genome and are busily using genomics to inform EBVs - we don't even do any selective breeding in lots of cases (see: mules), we don't close flocks to help with disease and selection (mules again).

If you have the right sheep, checking twice a day at lambing is fine.

 

[farmerm]

Having worked with P&P, we are miles behind. They have mapped the pig genome and are busily using genomics to inform EBVs - we don't even do any selective breeding in lots of cases (see: mules), we don't close flocks to help with disease and selection (mules again).

If you have the right sheep, checking twice a day at lambing is fine.

where does one go to buy the right sheep...

 

[Old Tip]

Having worked with P&P, we are miles behind. They have mapped the pig genome and are busily using genomics to inform EBVs - we don't even do any selective breeding in lots of cases (see: mules), we don't close flocks to help with disease and selection (mules again).

If you have the right sheep, checking twice a day at lambing is fine.

My Cheviots get checked once every other day

 

[andybk]

Just goes to show how processors keep just to the right side of bad publicity, they can go to anyone then , and say we all make a profit in supply chain and avoid legislation . The fact its only £2 is irrelevant

 

[DrWazzock]

Prolific ewes usually mean blowing the profits feeding Cade lambs. We only lamb 200 mostly mules but last year had 60 triplets and 40 singles, the rest pairs.

We patch on as many as we can, but we lamb in a shed so it not too difficult. It has lights for one thing so you actually see what's going on and aren't washed away or blown over by a gale like we used to be outside. Not so easy patching on if looking at them once a day out in field! We still ended up with about 40 Cade lambs on bucket system. These did well till we turned them out when they picked up bugs on the grass. Grass isn't all it's cracked up to be especially older leys or PP which are generally loaded with parasites unlike a shed, which is where pigs and chickens are generally kept nowadays. Should have kept them in the shed and pushed them on creep and they would have got away early rather than still being here.

I'd say we do alright by and large at about 1.9 per ewe. We feed surplus beet, cereals and forage. If they leave £2 profit AFTER the shepherds salary then that's not too bad is it?

Surely farmers don't expect to pay somebody to do the job for them? That day went when my great uncle Harry used to dress for dinner at 6 pm.

 

[SteveHants]

where does one go to buy the right sheep...

Maybe @Tim W can help you with that. Although your farm might be more chevease territory....

 

[Tim W]

where does one go to buy the right sheep...

Having worked with P&P, we are miles behind. They have mapped the pig genome and are busily using genomics to inform EBVs - we don't even do any selective breeding in lots of cases (see: mules), we don't close flocks to help with disease and selection (mules again).

If you have the right sheep, checking twice a day at lambing is fine.

Do your homework & go to;
Breeders that raise sheep in commercial conditions
Breeders that rear lambs under pressure so that you know they will do well when they come to your farm
Breeders that know about their health status and will show you their vet records
Breeders that breed for the traits you want ---easy lambing, worm resistance, lamb survival etc etc

 

[An ancient git]

I have a funny way of costing .... The gas-guzzling Disco 4 etc and o/heads , Insurance etc that would be there , whether or not sheep were , don't affect my basics ..... Disco is for fun !!
The ewes are expected to give a 'Margin' over direct costs of £70/ewe minimum ..... And , as I was achieving this some years ago , I'm going backwards 'cos should be hitting £80 by now ! That's the way that History has dictated , because , versus mid 1970s , we'd be getting about £150/lamb now !!!!!! Good job that I'm an OAP , not a 'proper' Farmer .......

 

[An ancient git]

Fortunate here ..... No rent , no borrowings , etc etc , all paid for ..... I wouldn't even get out of bed for what many folk do nowadays . Got friends working in industrial outfit . Him and Her earn (pre-tax) about £60K / year . Better than pratting about , getting covered in crap , in this weather , or what ? And no capital outlay , other than a vehicle to get there / do it ......... And that's what I did also to achieve my debt-free status ........
There are many ways to achieve ones' ultimate dream !