£200,000

[Macsky]

^ this.
One of the effects of heavy concentrate feeding is causing temporary infertility. If you look at the semen sample there is often a lot of dead sperm in there. I wouldn’t buy a well fed tup, especially a lamb, early in the season and expect him to be fertile straight away tbh, and treat it as a bonus if he is. I’ve never had one that hadn’t come right after a couple of months of more normal nutritional management.

Of course, those very high profile ones usually manage to produce sons for the early sales the next year. I suspect DNA testing might throw a few anomalies on occasion though......

As I understand it, it has a lot to do with the amount of fat around the testicles, keeps the temperature up too high to produce viable sperm.

Was working on a place that had a few pedigree texels, with a ram that was was being fed 3 times a day when I arrived in september, getting to the trough was a struggle for him, he was thrown out with the commercial flock after he had been used with the pures, some of which were left empty, and when I eventually went to get him in I could barely catch him! Completely transformed on a regime of grass and exercise, produced some of the nicest ewe lambs I’ve seen out of good southie Cheviot gimmers.

 

[1982]

Is it true that the five highest prices in Lanark are infertile?

 

[neilo]

As I understand it, it has a lot to do with the amount of fat around the testicles, keeps the temperature up too high to produce viable sperm.

Was working on a place that had a few pedigree texels, with a ram that was was being fed 3 times a day when I arrived in september, getting to the trough was a struggle for him, he was thrown out with the commercial flock after he had been used with the pures, some of which were left empty, and when I eventually went to get him in I could barely catch him! Completely transformed on a regime of grass and exercise, produced some of the nicest ewe lambs I’ve seen out of good southie Cheviot gimmers.

That’s great, if he survives the transition. Lots of those 100kg+ ram lambs will have hardly seen the outside of a shed, and will have a poorly developed rumen. Prolonged heavy feeding not only leads to extra fat around the testicles (as described) but also fat deposition round the internal organs, which last an awful lot longer and all to often leads to premature death.

 

[sheepwise]

Talk at Kelso today that there could be a few dear texel lambs as 5 of the dearest lambs at Lanark all infertile at moment. £200k, £65k, £48k ,£36k and £30k(outside ring).

 

[Woolless]

Talk at Kelso today that there could be a few dear texel lambs as 5 of the dearest lambs at Lanark all infertile at moment. £200k, £65k, £48k ,£36k and £30k(outside ring).

Christ, when will the penny drop with these people?

 

[neilo]

Christ, when will the penny drop with these people?

What does fertility matter when they have great nostrils??

 

[Wooly]

Talk at Kelso today that there could be a few dear texel lambs as 5 of the dearest lambs at Lanark all infertile at moment. £200k, £65k, £48k ,£36k and £30k(outside ring).

I hope their wifes haven't gone and spent the proceeds !! Wouldn't want to pay those figures back !!

 

[Pistonbroke]

Maybe Luck money doesn't actually make them lucky, regardless how much you give?

 

[Northeastfarmer]

It’s time all tups were semen tested before society sales to save all this

 

[andybk]

It’s time all tups were semen tested before society sales to save all this

probally not a bad idea for premier sales for the bigger breeds , might make some of the stuffers think about consequences of their actions . whats cost of test these days £50 ?
or maybe the other way to do it is sell on condition money refunded subject to an independent test , on condition report is altered or announced , as its not really a £200,000 ram anymore

 

[neilo]

probally not a bad idea for premier sales for the bigger breeds , might make some of the stuffers think about consequences of their actions . whats cost of test these days £50 ?
or maybe the other way to do it is sell on condition money refunded subject to an independent test , on condition report is altered or announced , as its not really a £200,000 ram anymore

That’s what the breeding warranty in every society’s rules are for, assuming they are enforced and breeders are honourable of course.

 

[andybk]

needs removing from. reports as well

 

[neilo]

needs removing from. reports as well

Why? The animal’s still been sold for £200k (or whatever), and will most likely be absolutely fine in a month’s time. Lots of rams are subfertile at the very start of their natural breeding season, even without heavy feeding making it worse.

 

[andybk]

Why? The animal’s still been sold for £200k (or whatever), and will most likely be absolutely fine in a month’s time. Lots of rams are subfertile at the very start of their natural breeding season, even without heavy feeding making it worse.

conditions of sale usually warrant fertile if he's not as with any other fault he's not eligible for sale so not eligible for inclusion in the historic report .the fact it's found after sale makes no difference he's not technically
a ram in till or if he's fertile same with small balls etc

 

[sheepwise]

probally not a bad idea for premier sales for the bigger breeds , might make some of the stuffers think about consequences of their actions . whats cost of test these days £50 ?
or maybe the other way to do it is sell on condition money refunded subject to an independent test , on condition report is altered or announced , as its not really a £200,000 ram anymore

Society inspectors put a lot of emphasis on inspecting testicles pre-sale but the reality is they have no idea if a lamb is sub-fertile without a semen test.

 

[Bury the Trash]

Society inspectors put a lot of emphasis on inspecting testicles pre-sale but the reality is they have no idea if a lamb is sub-fertile without a semen test.

And they can fail if they are not big enough.

What a load of b'ollocks

 

[Wooly]

Why? The animal’s still been sold for £200k (or whatever), and will most likely be absolutely fine in a month’s time. Lots of rams are subfertile at the very start of their natural breeding season, even without heavy feeding making it worse.

So you would be happy to spend £200,000 on an over fed Ram Lamb hoping that at some stage in it's life it will become fertile !?!

 

[andybk]

maybe societies should keep a record of fertility claims and people with regular claims given a warning and maybe disadvantageous place in cataloge
not good advertising for a breed to sell infertile stock especially to commercial farmers

 

[Jrp221]

The Texel Society need to step up! The rules need sorting, we heard last year that if a ram is thrown out of a breed sale for bad teeth etc if another breeder buys it they will be unable to register lambs to it???? If this is true, how is the buyer being penalised when they have bought the ram not knowing it has been thrown out. The ram should be deregistered. Hopefully this isn’t correct?

 

[andybk]

The Texel Society need to step up! The rules need sorting, we heard last year that if a ram is thrown out of a breed sale for bad teeth etc if another breeder buys it they will be unable to register lambs to it???? If this is true, how is the buyer being penalised when they have bought the ram not knowing it has been thrown out. The ram should be deregistered. Hopefully this isn’t correct?

think probaly on a structural issue may be a good idea , but would be a bit harsh on fertility as infection or overheating (which will often be the case with fat rams sold in peak of summer ) will often be a temporary problem . On the teeth issue i know of someone who bought a national show champion beltex that was overshot , was sold at carlisle for a discount (still big money) and is continuing to produce overshot offspring , been better thrown out on inspection at sale the damage he will do to the breed , fantastic body but a fault is a fault , was always told you iron out faults to help longer productive life but do beltexes get to old age anyway so does it matter if people change them out every few years not sure on that one now ?