£200,000

andybk

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Mendips Somerset
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Weight gain is a function of mature weight though, which is one of the reasons that terminal sires exist. It is not, however linear, it tends to be approaching exponential until a certain percentage of mature weight is reached, at which point it flattens out.

Its hard to describe in words, if only I could draw a graph into the post.... :LOL:
not what we have found , up until a certain point (35-40kg) there is not a lot of difference in small and big ones regard growth rates , given the same nutrition , what tends to be critical is finish , where bigger ones need to be higher weights to finish properly .i have some (for the breed) quite small rams that will grow at 400gpd + ,
 

1982

Member
Lets say Sportsmans sell 15 sons next year for 8k average that makes 120k and the following year they sell say 15 daughters at 3k average and that makes 45k and next year sell 100straws at 100quid that makes 10k.thats 175k.if he turns out well theyl use him for a second season and get good money on him again. or they might just sell 1tup for 100k next year and theyll break even straight away.they sold a tup for 130k 2 years ago so definitely possible
 

neilo

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Montgomeryshire
Lets say Sportsmans sell 15 sons next year for 8k average that makes 120k and the following year they sell say 15 daughters at 3k average and that makes 45k and next year sell 100straws at 100quid that makes 10k.thats 175k.if he turns out well theyl use him for a second season and get good money on him again. or they might just sell 1tup for 100k next year and theyll break even straight away.they sold a tup for 130k 2 years ago so definitely possible

Easy, I can’t see why everyone isn’t doing it. All you need is 15 people to believe in it the next year, and away you go.?
 

gatepost

Member
Location
Cotswolds
That’s exactly why anyone should look at individual trait ebvs, not just an overal index........ as has always been the case.

A bigger issue than indexes, is the continued push towards bigger and bigger sheep, as rewarded by the show and sale ring. Shearling rams hitting the show rings at close to 200kg (whatever their feeding level) just aren’t going to be producing lambs that fatten off forage at 40-45kg. Huge mature weights inevitably mean later maturing animals, which is just the opposite of what the commercial farmer needs.
Blaming poorly selected ‘high index’ sheep is a complete red herring.
Cannot like enough.
 

SteveHants

Member
Livestock Farmer
This is the best that I can do to illustrate my point - these are the growth curves for Texels and Texel Xs, I think. The "bump" at 75-90 days is the transition from milk + grass to grass + forage (these animals were fed). The animal doesn't start laying down much in the way of fat until the curve starts to flatten at the top. It's not the best graph because it stops at 35KG and you'll have to imagine the line getting less steep until it reaches mature weight. As the mature weight increases, it takes longer for that curve to start to flatten, and so the lambs wont start to put down fat until they reach higher weights (possibly higher than you want to finish at). Id'd much rather the graph showed % bodyweight gain per day, it wuld be much steeper, but I can't dig one out currently.
sheepGC.png
 

Henarar

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Somerset
Lets say Sportsmans sell 15 sons next year for 8k average that makes 120k and the following year they sell say 15 daughters at 3k average and that makes 45k and next year sell 100straws at 100quid that makes 10k.thats 175k.if he turns out well theyl use him for a second season and get good money on him again. or they might just sell 1tup for 100k next year and theyll break even straight away.they sold a tup for 130k 2 years ago so definitely possible
I wonder if someone bought 3 or of those 8k sons and put with one group of commercial ewes and bought 3 or 4 decent tups for say 500 quid and put with another group if there would really be much difference in the lambs
 

Whitepeak

Member
Livestock Farmer
Think I'd best start my sawdust business :whistle:
But no in all serious well done to all involved, great achievement that many can only dream of.

I'm not sure the whole inner circle, no money changes hands business is wholly true, if it were why aren't all breeds making 6 figure sums? I think its more to do with private business owners investing their hard earned cash into their hobby. Which in this case is sheep, whereas it could easily have been cars, race horses, football clubs etc. What they choose to invest in is their choice imo.

And regarding, they'll have made their money back in semen sales before they get him home. Not sure, if they were after a quick return then maybe. But if they were after longterm investment then no, they will restrict his genetics and won't have sold a drop. A well know Holstein breeder always told me to not over supply genetics from your best animals in order to keep demand high. It always annoyed him if he sold a high priced heifer that was then put on permanent flush and produced eggs like a chicken, that then sold for less than the flushing cost. As it devalued his stock.
 

SteveHants

Member
Livestock Farmer
Just a thought: Should the breeder take all the credit for these show winners? I think that at least half the credit should go to the feed scientists that work for/advise the feed companies.

I think they are missing a trick - they could make money from sponsorship, have the name of the feed company sprayed on the side of the sheep, or in its name. "Sportsmans GLW GroMax" or whatever...

Is this the livestock equivalent of the "who can grow the biggest turnip" contest at the village fair?
 

Nithsdale

Member
Livestock Farmer
If he doesnt breed owt next year he might be running with mules in 2yrs time!!

That boy (unknown to him... he's just a sheep) is the chosen one and is now THE sheep of the moment. Every other breeder chasing the dream will want a piece of him. Give it 3 years his blood will be well spread over the society catalogues.

Trust me, he won't be pushed down to commercial breeding. Poor boy will be the father to hundreds - and grsnd-daddy to thousands, but will never serve a sheep.
 

Hilly

Member
If you speak to commercial farmers then you will find the jury is still out on high index texels with many saying they have lost their natural fleshing and are too hard to finish. Interestingly the texel breeder featured in the Scottish Farmer this week alluded to the same thing.
I have always found Texel brutally hard to finish , I find them soft they suffer lameness everthing going , I find native bred sheep much easier in all respects and more profitable than Texel s but that’s just me and my findings others obviously find other wise Ginny by the popularity of the breed .
 

SteveHants

Member
Livestock Farmer
I have always found Texel brutally hard to finish , I find them soft they suffer lameness everthing going , I find native bred sheep much easier in all respects and more profitable than Texel s but that’s just me and my findings others obviously find other wise Ginny by the popularity of the breed .

I've never used pure Texel, always used SufTex rams over my ewes to maximise hybrid vigour. Never found them hard to finish, but then, they were all bought on EBVs that suited my system.
 

1982

Member
A
That boy (unknown to him... he's just a sheep) is the chosen one and is now THE sheep of the moment. Every other breeder chasing the dream will want a piece of him. Give it 3 years his blood will be well spread over the society catalogues.

Trust me, he won't be pushed down to commercial breeding. Poor boy will be the father to hundreds - and grsnd-daddy to thousands, but will never serve a sheep.
All depends what he produces next year.
 

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Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

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As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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