£200,000

[Henarar]

You don't buy an 8k son off a 200k tup to breed fat lambs...

yes I realise that but the question is still valid there would only be 1/4 of his genes in the resulting lambs would they really be that much better to account for the extra 7 and a half k per tup and if they are bred again before any progeny is sold for commercial use it would only be 1/16

like it or not [apart from the p1ssing about to look good] it all comes down to sheep meat production in the end

sceptical bugger that I am, he may be a good tup I wouldn't know and a bit of him may be a good thing to have but I wouldn't pay big money for it just on what he made at some sale

 

[neilo]

yes I realise that but the question is still valid there would only be 1/4 of his genes in the resulting lambs would they really be that much better to account for the extra 7 and a half k per tup and if they are bred again before any progeny is sold for commercial use it would only be 1/16

like it or not [apart from the p1ssing about to look good] it all comes down to sheep meat production in the end

sceptical bugger that I am, he may be a good tup I wouldn't know and a bit of him may be a good thing to have but I wouldn't pay big money for it just on what he made at some sale

^^^this, always, and is what tends to get forgotten in the razzamatazz that revolves around the 'premier' rams, bulls, and likely everything else. All terminal sires have to be able to produce fat lambs. If they do it with a bit more style, then great, but if they can't produce a good fat lamb, they have no place in the job.

 

[Obi Wan]

IMHO poor taste for all involved, never a good time for such stunts but this one is notably poor.

 

[Jrp221]

If he doesnt breed owt next year he might be running with mules in 2yrs time!!

He’ll probably be dead this time next year. Got to maximise the price of the semen!

 

[1982]

Blackie folk into Texel s , track record of the blackface that lot involved if I was s Texel breeder I’d be worried very worried .

Heard an old quote'If you havent ruined a couple of sheep breeds your not a proper breeder!!Border leicesters were ruined by breeding for roman nose and pointy up ears and suffolks ruined by going for massive bone and big heads!must be some truth in the saying.

 

[Nithsdale]

yes I realise that but the question is still valid there would only be 1/4 of his genes in the resulting lambs would they really be that much better to account for the extra 7 and a half k per tup and if they are bred again before any progeny is sold for commercial use it would only be 1/16

like it or not [apart from the p1ssing about to look good] it all comes down to sheep meat production in the end

sceptical bugger that I am, he may be a good tup I wouldn't know and a bit of him may be a good thing to have but I wouldn't pay big money for it just on what he made at some sale

Why only 1/4? They'll sell thousands of straws off him, he will have many many sons and daughters with 1/2 his blood...


The ones in the game at the bottom will all want something with his breeding in it, and will all want to sell a grandson of his - ever in the hope it gets them more interest and £££ for his sale and they can climb another rung on the ladder.

It's a game.

You're confusing these pedigree sales and the unrealistic prices for unrelated commercial farming. I mean... I agree with you and I personally believe you need your head seen to if you go to these sales to buy tups to breed fat lambs - you're better off going to your local 'ram sale' as you'll pay a fraction for good tups (which have either failed the society 'standard' or were deemed not to have good enough pedigree to sell) but will produce fat lambs of every bit just as good a quality

 

[westwards]

If you watched the sale oneline the prices were well down on last year with many lambs at £450- 650 and only a few breeders lambs in the thousands.
How the get to an average of over £3000 I don't know many unsold as well.

 

[Henarar]

Why only 1/4? They'll sell thousands of straws off him, he will have many many sons and daughters with 1/2 his blood...


The ones in the game at the bottom will all want something with his breeding in it, and will all want to sell a grandson of his - ever in the hope it gets them more interest and £££ for his sale and they can climb another rung on the ladder.

It's a game.

You're confusing these pedigree sales and the unrealistic prices for unrelated commercial farming. I mean... I agree with you and I personally believe you need your head seen to if you go to these sales to buy tups to breed fat lambs - you're better off going to your local 'ram sale' as you'll pay a fraction for good tups (which have either failed the society 'standard' or were deemed not to have good enough pedigree to sell) but will produce fat lambs of every bit just as good a quality

you have to read my post before the one you quoted to see the question I asked, nothing to do with selling straws just if his sons would be worth 8k
they may well make a fortune out of him who knows, anyway nobody really knows how much he cost

 

[Henarar]

Another question, I wonder how much he would have made if he had never had any concentrate ?

 

[dogandstick]

If you watched the sale oneline the prices were well down on last year with many lambs at £450- 650 and only a few breeders lambs in the thousands.
How the get to an average of over £3000 I don't know many unsold as well.

Over 600 entered , 342 sold according to society website. Maybe lots of those making 450-600 (and less) weren't actually sold.

 

[NZDan]

I remember the full brother of Tophill Joe (now he was a REAL sheep when he broke all the records!! To this day the smartest tup I've ever seen, IMO) Killed himself before he left Carlisle market. Done himself in running head on into a post while being loaded after the sale

I scanned a good number of tophouse joe daughters, everyone was hard and poorly fleshed and were terrible for not getting in lamb

 

[NZDan]

So has anyone got a link to the rams BVs?

 

[SteveHants]

Recorded Vs non recorded progress:

 

[SteveHants]

So has anyone got a link to the rams BVs?

If that ram is recorded, I'll eat my hat

 

[gatepost]

If that ram is recorded, I'll eat my hat

Non recorded, as a recorder myself quite difficult to find just what you want purely within recorded sheep, baring in mind that you still have to have a visually pleasing pen for most customers, who what ever they tell you beforehand generally buy on sight, I have regular on farm buyers who come because the sheep do what they expect and aren't overfed, but couldn't give a monkeys for the figs, however because I do, I at least have faith in the rams doing the job, so not a sales pitch just a breeding tool.

 

[Nithsdale]

I scanned a good number of tophouse joe daughters, everyone was hard and poorly fleshed and were terrible for not getting in lamb

To be fair, I've never had any experience of him other than seeing him... I just remember being really impressed by him before and after he was sold. He was a cracking beast

 

[neilo]

Recorded Vs non recorded progress:

View attachment 829296

You'll be upsetting @andybk again.

 

[SteveHants]

Non recorded, as a recorder myself quite difficult to find just what you want purely within recorded sheep, baring in mind that you still have to have a visually pleasing pen for most customers, who what ever they tell you beforehand generally buy on sight, I have regular on farm buyers who come because the sheep do what they expect and aren't overfed, but couldn't give a monkeys for the figs, however because I do, I at least have faith in the rams doing the job, so not a sales pitch just a breeding tool.

I used to buy thus: find a breeder who's system I liked and who I trusted. Select 5 or so rams by EBV and then have a good look at them together. Based on the look and the figures in my hand, I'd then choose, say, 2.

I do have an uncanny knack for visually picking the most expensive ram though.

 

[neilo]

To be fair, I've never had any experience of him other than seeing him... I just remember being really impressed by him before and after he was sold. He was a cracking beast

I've no doubt he would have been an impressive looking individual on sale day, as are many of the mega-money sheep, including the subject of this thread. However, half of the appearance of these individuals on sale day is down to the management and the fettling that goes on to get them at 100% on the day that matters. What the animal's genetic potential is, is entirely another matter, and I would suggest, is of more importance?

 

[SteveHants]

I've no doubt he would have been an impressive looking individual on sale day, as are many of the mega-money sheep, including the subject of this thread. However, half of the appearance of these individuals on sale day is down to the management and the fettling that goes on to get them at 100% on the day that matters. What the animal's genetic potential is, is entirely another matter, and I would suggest, is of more importance?

Like I said earlier, the feed scientists who work for/advise the manufacturer surely require some credit here.
I'm waiting for sponsorship deals.