€168 MILLION LOSS FOR BEEF FARMERS OVER 12 MONTHS

[Walterp]

It wasn't more than a couple of years ago that top quality fats were only fetching around £1.20 kg livewieght. Probably with shelf prices not much

l looked this up, and here's nice chart for 2009/11 to suggest that recent fat prices were an aberration - maybe today's 'natural' price level might be roughly £3.00 or so?

 

[caveman]

Maybe my £1.20 might of been a bit low on national average.
Maybe the Laa figures just pick the best from the best?
Although I would suggest that, to get an average of £2.10 for the last couple of novembers and throughout last year would of needed a great many sold at well over £2.10 (which I didn't personally see), to balance all the £1.50's and less (which I did see a lot of).
What caused the sharpish upturn three years ago?
Did the rest of the world stop shooting calves then and we are now reaping the consequences?
Or is it plain old exchange rate doing the damage?

http://www.laa.co.uk/animal-data.php

 

[Walterp]

The blip in fat prices was mainly caused by contracting supply, here and abroad, coupled with weak Sterling. More calves were tagged, so more cattle came forward - reared by farmers who though £4.00 per kilo was the new normal, whereas I reckon we're doing well to maintain £3.30. (The R4L average in 2012 was £3.50, on slaughterings down 7%, and exports up 9% on 2010 levels).

The beef herd continues to contract, so the (expanding) dairy sector is where the future beef supply can be influenced.

The ICSA article is badly-thought out and incorrect: in truth, the Irish beef sector enjoyed the equivalent of a £168 million bonus in 2013, which has now gone away. Probably for good.

 

[Yale]

Sadly the exchange rate situation seems here to stay and you only have to look back to when it was at these levels to see how much downward pressure on all UK agricultural output.

We are reigning in spending to only essentials at the moment as i see lambs being poor priced,beef diabolical and the SFP being badly hit,especially after our departed friend Alun Davies wreaked havoc during his reign.

 

[JD-Kid]

The supermarkets and their large suppliers are in a position now when they can dominate and I would go so far as to say rig the market prices for entire regions and countries.

This is not a free market and the balance has to be weighted back in the favour of producers,but also importantly there is sufficient competition that consumers also feel the benefit.

Long and short is that supermarkets are too big and powerful.

ummmm would the long and short of it also be farmers are too small and weak ... 100 ,1000,10 000 lambs is nobody to be fair in the system 100 000 you get talked to diffrently not in a live market tho
same deal with meat why the farmers did not while getting headage payments invest in there own industry by controling large killing plants by buying in while they had the money i don't know if the farmers had got there 5hit together haveing over 70% of the total killing space supplyed there own plants and those plants done the deals with supermarkets major outlet etc .. it would be a totaly diffrent story but as it is yer like a 2 year old kid takeing a big dog for a walk beliveing you have control truth is dog stops or takes off all yer doing is hanging on to the lead

 

[gone up the hill]

The blip in fat prices was mainly caused by contracting supply, here and abroad, coupled with weak Sterling. More calves were tagged, so more cattle came forward - reared by farmers who though £4.00 per kilo was the new normal, whereas I reckon we're doing well to maintain £3.30. (The R4L average in 2012 was £3.50, on slaughterings down 7%, and exports up 9% on 2010 levels).

The beef herd continues to contract, so the (expanding) dairy sector is where the future beef supply can be influenced.

The ICSA article is badly-thought out and incorrect: in truth, the Irish beef sector enjoyed the equivalent of a £168 million bonus in 2013, which has now gone away. Probably for good.

Problem is the calves being born to what only can be described as mongrels and not dairy cows ( ie : all this small NZ type extended grazing cross breeding cows which aren't much bigger than a great Dane dog in many examples ) are not fit to be reared for beef and even if you do its quite clear the proccessors don't want them in the future ( take a look at the comments from the ABP chap about electronic grading and the grade's being changed and that good quality cattle will be paid reasonable well for but anything other than the best the cuts in price will be getting a lot worse in time ) Sedgemoor on a typical Saturday prob averages 500 calves week in/ out all year and out of that 500 on average only 200 are worth rearing and the rest should be shot and put in kebabs alongside cull ewes...

Long term unless quality genuine suckler bred fat cattle make £5/ kilo deadweight with the rest at about £3/ kilo then its very hard to see where the beef cattle will come from in the UK.....

 

[cowboysupper]

Problem is the calves being born to what only can be described as mongrels and not dairy cows ( ie : all this small NZ type extended grazing cross breeding cows which aren't much bigger than a great Dane dog in many examples ) are not fit to be reared for beef and even if you do its quite clear the proccessors don't want them in the future ( take a look at the comments from the ABP chap about electronic grading and the grade's being changed and that good quality cattle will be paid reasonable well for but anything other than the best the cuts in price will be getting a lot worse in time ) Sedgemoor on a typical Saturday prob averages 500 calves week in/ out all year and out of that 500 on average only 200 are worth rearing and the rest should be shot and put in kebabs alongside cull ewes...

Long term unless quality genuine suckler bred fat cattle make £5/ kilo deadweight with the rest at about £3/ kilo then its very hard to see where the beef cattle will come from in the UK.....

http://www.agriland.ie/news/questionable-exceptional-beef-grades-necessary-80-export-markets/

Interesting take on grades from Irish processor.

Re. ABP and VIA grading, we've had it in NI for 3 odd years. It will not please everyone but I don't think anyone could say it has had much of an impact on plainer cattle prices.

 

[cudota]

Problem is the calves being born to what only can be described as mongrels and not dairy cows ( ie : all this small NZ type extended grazing cross breeding cows which aren't much bigger than a great Dane dog in many examples ) are not fit to be reared for beef and even if you do its quite clear the proccessors don't want them in the future ( take a look at the comments from the ABP chap about electronic grading and the grade's being changed and that good quality cattle will be paid reasonable well for but anything other than the best the cuts in price will be getting a lot worse in time ) Sedgemoor on a typical Saturday prob averages 500 calves week in/ out all year and out of that 500 on average only 200 are worth rearing and the rest should be shot and put in kebabs alongside cull ewes...

Long term unless quality genuine suckler bred fat cattle make £5/ kilo deadweight with the rest at about £3/ kilo then its very hard to see where the beef cattle will come from in the UK.....

after whats happened in the last few months £5/kilo going to be along time off

 

[hillman]

The factories aren't overly worried about quality suckler calves , all they want is conistentaly , it's easier for them to cut and package , so maybe the dairy men are going to win again !

 

[cowboysupper]

The factories aren't overly worried about quality suckler calves , all they want is conistentaly , it's easier for them to cut and package , so maybe the dairy men are going to win again !

Some of the kiwis can correct me if im wrong but from memory a lot of their beef and sheep guys keep sheep, sucklers and dairy origin beef to maximise output and spread risk. Also potentially better cash flow as well. As long as your ground is suitable for dairy bred beef, I a mixture of all 3 is the best way to go as it gives you access to 3 different markets rather than two.

1. lamb.
2. premium beef product.
3. manufacturing beef.

If 60 odd % of the carcase is going into manufacturing beef anyway, surely there is less of a need for the number of suckler cows there currently are? Again as long as the ground is suitable. 25 years ago there were half as many suckler cows in Ireland as there are now and the markets have definitely changed with more and more people wanting affordable cuts of meat whether its chicken, pork, beef etc which are quick to cook.

 

[awkward]

Bump

 

[Thick Farmer]

Bump

You lazy barsteward. At least make a comment on a thread that you have revived after 12 months on the shelf!

 

[Pasty]

My take on it is that UK farms are consolidating and getting bigger. Less farms, more acres and head per farm. Economies of scale maybe but more market power, no. Less so in fact because the stuff has to go somewhere and you need a buyer. The buyer gives you the price.

It's upside down as a business. You should know your price before you start production, or at least have a damn good idea of it. Why do farmers put in all the hard yards, take all the risk and then leave their margin down to the price on the day which is dictated by somebody else? Because they haven't already secured their market or have even considered what the price may be when they are looking to sell. Have you built in any arbitrage if the price is a disaster? It's possible with pretty much anything. I know many farmers do with forward selling or whatever but many don't understand basic risk management.

I'm going to regret writing this but too many farmers are just churning out product and bitching and moaning when the price goes against them. It's a business. There is risk. You are not alone in that. There are plenty of businesses out there who don't receive a set payment for doing nothing but owning or having control of a square foot of land in May.

Work hard. Be smart. Cut your costs and bin the things that aren't working. Analyse everything and include man hours. Put a cost on it and see if it stacks up. It's just business.

I'll get my coat.

 

[Thick Farmer]

Bin things that aren't working???

Milk - crap

Beef - crap

Cereals - crap

Spuds -crap

Time to sell up if we listento your advice @Pasty

 

[le bon paysan]

It's interesting that we have taken a hammering and Irish and Polish beef has been used as the excuse for our prices.
I've even heard people on here say that the Irish are making money at the lower prices as they are more efficient than us. The reality turns out to be quite different.
I wonder if the Polish are as efficient as certain people have claimed!

Poland; The statutory minimum wage is € 243.65 (936.00 PLN).per month.
That'll help their efficiency

 

[awkward]

My point ,I see some similarities rightly or wrongly, in reading through this between this and what Robert Forster has been putting forward in another tred here , food for some thought I thought

 

[spin cycle]

You lazy barsteward. At least make a comment on a thread that you have revived after 12 months on the shelf!

if it's end of july already....brrrr......nice one awkward reviving a thread from a pre wla era...i forgot whether robert was saying you were getting a premium for RT beef?...or whether wla is needed for a premium?...or whether they'll be a premium after wla?

 

[james ds]

Bin things that aren't working???

Milk - crap

Beef - crap

Cereals - crap

Spuds -crap

Time to sell up if we listento your advice @Pasty

If you thought they were crap then what do you think now.

 

[Pasty]

Time to re-read my post.

 

[james ds]

Time to re-read my post.

Yes it makes a lot of cense .