10 in 7 milking + summer diet

som farmer

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
somerset
Forget your pipe dream of being the Dairy genetics King of the World.

Sell everything that you can't milk and buy anything you can milk -black & white, cross bred, 3 quartered, ugly-as long as they give milk.

As soon as you have enough income employ someone -full time-who won't mess you about.
our herd was not pretty, when we went back into milk, 3/4, big bags, old cows, xbeef, at one stage we had 17 different x's/pure. But they were cheap, they put milk in the tank, with the added advantage of a buyer that only complained about cc when it went over 1000 in the tank, not that fussy over b/s either. We were never anywhere near those figures, but some were, and when they stopped, transferred us to another processor, who point blank refused to take some on. But it was a cheap ( very ) way to get back in, dearest 'proper' cow bought to start, was £800. Moooved a long way since then, but the cheaper the cost of milk, into tank, the better it is.
just thought about cow prices, even last year, you could pick up i/c mid lac cows pretty cheap, no longer, ours last week, av £1500. Cheapest l ever bought around £300. When we sold originally, the herd av £350, and that was a good price then !
 
What yield would you need of solids on OAD to fill your contract? If you can fill it OAD and low input you’d be better off I think.. less cow problems and less money spent on concentrates. In theory these milking times at different times every other day makes sense but it will mess your body clock up, been there done that. Make your system as simple as possible to run by yourself, find a guy to milk one day a week.

We had an old neighbour that was high yield and into genetics, winning all the production awards. Said the money is not in it. Milk/solids pays the bills.

Don’t be to proud to change how you get to the final destination. It’s a gruelling marathon not a sprint.
 

RJ1

Member
Location
Wales
Hi @Jdunn55
I've researched 10 in 7 a lot. If you haven't already, have a search for Brent Boyce of LicNZ. He's done a lot of webinars, some last year and there were a few write ups on them too. There's also a research project on various flexible milking regimes run by Paul Edwards of DairyNZ - have a look at their website.

We did it for a couple of months at the end of last lactation. Was great to solve labour issue and being 10 in 7 as opposed to 3 in 2, you know where you are and can plan. Each week the milkings fall the same.

We're currently in a partnership but when we eventually go it alone, I would try it at the very least from after finishing AI. For us, it would give flexibility with a young family.

One word of caution though - I don't think you can expect zero drop in production at the yields you would like. I can see that you are passionate about breeding and the genetics side of things. But speaking as a recent convert to dairy, it would seem to me to be a distraction from the number one goal of simply making a profit in the first few years. Block calving was the only consideration for us, and lower yields in the 5000s (given we went spring) at that. The recent rises in inputs has done absolutely nothing to change that focus.

I think 10 in 7 could suit you and give you a lot more breathing space, but I think you have to commit to a yield and cost structure which will bring the best out of the system.

All the best.
 

Manney

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Penzance
To get the full benefit and efficiency from 7 in 10 or OAD milking regimes I think a herd really needs to be a proper spring block. To avoid any confusion I think block calving herds should have a completely dry period and a gap between last cow calving and service. Not calve 8 months of the year but have a spring bias.

In my opinion changing milking frequency will not necessarily free up time unless whole system and mind set changes are made.

Out of interest what sort of yeilds can be achieved on 7 in 10?
 

Jdunn55

Member
So spent today thinking about this more, realistically I have 2 options

Option 1:
Involves me raising capital and buying 60ish Jersey x cows and being able to justify a full time General farm worker. I'm guessing £75,000 for the cows and then £30,000 for the workman + holiday, sick pay, national insurance so probably £40,000 total?

I'm less convinced on this option as I have 60 acres grazing to reseed this year at some point so could make things tight

Option 2:
Cutting yield back and trialling milking 10 in 7 on 12-18-18 split.
Regarding yield I did some maths whilst milking this morning, please tell me if any of the below is wrong:
15kgdm of grazed grass at 12% me = 180mj
4.5kg barley (maximum - would be 4kg one day and the day with 2 milkings would be an extra kg in the afternoon) at 13%me would give another 55mj
180+55=235mj total
235-70mj (maintenance) = 165mj
165÷5.5mj/litre of milk = 30 litres?

If I could do 5000 litres in the first 200 days and then another 1500 litres for the last 100 days (with maybe only a kg of cake to entice them in the parlour) that would be 6500 litres from a maximum of 1t of cake?

I would be more than happy with that for now if its achievable? I don't want huge yields (yet) big yields are something I want to aim for in the future but right now I am happy with a bit less milk if it cuts back on my work and if it saves on expenses too then it's win-win as far as I'm concerned
Thoughts on the above?
 
Location
southwest
So many obsessed with "yield"

What matters is if you make money. 150 scrub cows averaging 5000(or solids equivalent) litres may well be easier and more profitable than trying for 8000 (or solids equivalent)litres with 100 "thoroughbreds"

Edited to add. Why do you think grass has a lower feed value than barley? It's certainly a lot cheaper!
 
Last edited:

Jdunn55

Member
So many obsessed with "yield"

What matters is if you make money. 150 scrub cows averaging 5000(or solids equivalent) litres may well be easier and more profitable than trying for 8000 (or solids equivalent)litres with 100 "thoroughbreds"

Edited to add. Why do you think grass has a lower feed value than barley? It's certainly a lot cheaper!
Regarding barley, it's higher energy and higher starch which is what cows need at grass, ideally with fibre which it doesn't have granted

Yield wise I just want to get the most I can from both, myself, my cows and my land, there's obviously an efficiency and a sweet spot, I'm trying to work out what mine is. I learnt most of what I know from a herd of pedigree holsteins who are averaging 12000 litres of good quality milk, that's not what I'm going for right now but it's where I get my influence from. Especially when I have dad and grandad in my head with their cows and what they did as well
 

frederick

Member
Location
south west
So spent today thinking about this more, realistically I have 2 options

Option 1:
Involves me raising capital and buying 60ish Jersey x cows and being able to justify a full time General farm worker. I'm guessing £75,000 for the cows and then £30,000 for the workman + holiday, sick pay, national insurance so probably £40,000 total?

I'm less convinced on this option as I have 60 acres grazing to reseed this year at some point so could make things tight

Option 2:
Cutting yield back and trialling milking 10 in 7 on 12-18-18 split.
Regarding yield I did some maths whilst milking this morning, please tell me if any of the below is wrong:
15kgdm of grazed grass at 12% me = 180mj
4.5kg barley (maximum - would be 4kg one day and the day with 2 milkings would be an extra kg in the afternoon) at 13%me would give another 55mj
180+55=235mj total
235-70mj (maintenance) = 165mj
165÷5.5mj/litre of milk = 30 litres?

If I could do 5000 litres in the first 200 days and then another 1500 litres for the last 100 days (with maybe only a kg of cake to entice them in the parlour) that would be 6500 litres from a maximum of 1t of cake?

I would be more than happy with that for now if its achievable? I don't want huge yields (yet) big yields are something I want to aim for in the future but right now I am happy with a bit less milk if it cuts back on my work and if it saves on expenses too then it's win-win as far as I'm concerned
Thoughts on the above?
option one is bonkers

so that leaves option2 but I cant see you making 7000 litres though I may be wrong.

one is bonkers because it increases your debt at a time of rising costs and interest rates. I also think you are no more likely to find a good full time member of staff than a good relief. If you loose the member of staff you have no hope of coping.

When you finally start to make money you will wean yourself off of this so called great cow obsession and yields
 
Location
Cornwall
Regarding barley, it's higher energy and higher starch which is what cows need at grass, ideally with fibre which it doesn't have granted

Yield wise I just want to get the most I can from both, myself, my cows and my land, there's obviously an efficiency and a sweet spot, I'm trying to work out what mine is. I learnt most of what I know from a herd of pedigree holsteins who are averaging 12000 litres of good quality milk, that's not what I'm going for right now but it's where I get my influence from. Especially when I have dad and grandad in my head with their cows and what they did as well

Could you not just keep going as you are but search for a new reliable relief milker?
 

Jdunn55

Member
option one is bonkers

so that leaves option2 but I cant see you making 7000 litres though I may be wrong.

one is bonkers because it increases your debt at a time of rising costs and interest rates. I also think you are no more likely to find a good full time member of staff than a good relief. If you loose the member of staff you have no hope of coping.

When you finally start to make money you will wean yourself off of this so called great cow obsession and yields
I would have thought a full time staff member would be easier to find than a decent relief milker? But I see your point, same with the increasing debt. My cows are currently on track to do 7500l average based on predicted yields (but obviously that can change)

With less milking and less cake I would expect them to drop a bit, was hoping 6500 litres average might be closer to the mark? But only 1 tonne of cake instead of 1.5
 

frederick

Member
Location
south west
I just don't think there is anyone wanting to do it
He's cancelled on me again tomorrow morning too 🙄
But it's the same for any position.
1.5 or 3 members of staff is a better place because you can probably cope with the loss of a member in the short term. 2 full time and one dissapears is a disaster.
 

Rossymons

Member
Location
Cornwall
I'm just going to throw this out there and see what happens. Brace yourself...

Hit the nuclear button and sell the cows. Disappear abroad for 12 months and milk anywhere that will take you. See the world, learn different ways of doings, experience new things.

Come back refreshed, total new set of eyes on the world and go again.

I'm going to hide behind the sofa and wait for the inevitable onslaught. But I just wanted throw it there.
 

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Man fined £300 for bonfire-related waste offences

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Written by William Kellett from Agriland

court-640x360.jpg
A man has pleaded guilty at Newtownards Magistrates’ Court to waste offences relating to a bonfire next to the electrical sub-station on the Circular Road in Newtownards, Co. Down.

Gareth Gill (51) of Abbot’s Walk, Newtownards pleaded guilty to two charges under the Waste and Contaminated Land (Northern Ireland) Order 1997, for which he was fined £150 each and ordered to pay a £15 offender’s levy

On June 25, 2018, PSNI officers went to Gill’s yard, where they found a large amount of waste consisting of scrap wood, pallets, carpet and underlay.

Discussion with Northern Ireland Environment Agency (NIEA) officers confirmed the site...
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