2 pass cultivations

[mo!]

Yes a lot of BG problems are layed at trio type cultivation but I think it is slightly unfair because everyone was on crap rotations, now that rotation is the buzz word they are still looking for someone to blame, if you have a good rotation then I think max tillage can have a place, well certainly on our soil type. Yes I have to be very watchful on certain fields but i just keep my fingers crossed

Trio is only max tillage if that's how you set it up.

 

[teslacoils]

The blame, for my 2p, if in leaving a "weatherproof" finish on heavy land. You need to be rolling after at least, if not power harrowing or cultipressing straight behind to consolidate and get rubbish growing. Leaving clods to weather in summer is just a recipie for disaster. Certainly here.

 

[DrWazzock]

Combine, once over with terradisc, after the initial chit, leave it till spring, spray off, “direct drill”. It’s settled to a nice drillable surface by then, and all the crap has chitted and straw rotted. Spring barley, beet and grass.
All the rest is wishful thinking, ifs buts and maybes, ideas that are nice but aren’t robust and often fail, cost a fortune etc. This isn’t wheat land anyway and rapes knackered so I am forgetting both of those.

 

[DrWazzock]

Autumn drilling has become an excellent way of getting black grass established in your crop as well as spending a fortune by spring just keeping it going, on herbicides that don’t work but knackered the crop, slugs and aphids. Only then for it to fall at the last hurdle burning up in June and maybe if you are lucky delivering 2 t per acre.
I’m done with that, I really am.

 

[tw15]

Sometimes referred to as scratch tillage. Seen it practiced but where it was done a bit wetter than ideal the discs smeared a bit underneath & there was a layer of compaction created just below the deepest pass plus wheelings from tractors & trailers. It's a perfectly acceptable way of establishing crops but like all systems, requires the judicious use of a spade to monitor soil structure.

Shallow passes should keep the seed bank in the top couple of inches active but leave the rest. Deeper tillage like the Trio or Topdown would mix seeds throughout the cultivated profile, resulting in a protracted emergence which makes management more tricky and is, in my opinion, the root cause of many current blackgrass problems.

Those topdown /solo/trio's are what I call rip it up mix it and pack it down and I reality are a cause of a lot of blackgrass problems for some . They have mixed the blackgrass seed anywhere from the top to about 10 inches deep so that when people now try to plough down seeds from the top they just bring up older ones from deeper .

 

[DrWazzock]

Truth is in the autumn we have never had a decent chit of black grass until it too wet to drill, so that idea is a non starter. As is drilling rape early or late to avoid CSFB. It gets it whenever you drill it here.

 

[ollie989898]

Well I think we can agree a lot of the tried and popular methods of old are not working so something else needs to be explored. Spring cropping is all well and good if you cost structure can support it and you can cut it all on time.

 

[JCfarmer]

I go in with the carrier as soon as the straw is clear for a chit and then Lds subsoiler no more than 10" deep when time allows (which is soon to be a wider Lds topsoiler from Weaving). Carriered again for another chit and seedbed then drill.
NB. Power harrow may be used depending on seedbed with in some fields/conditions.

 

[CAF]

Maybe it is lack of power.... but only go 10km/h With the trio and at that the front legs seem to be only lifting the soil and not boiling it like a topdown ... so shouldn’t be mixing the seed through the profile? But do prefer to go with the disc first now and leave it green up till before the drill to sort out the compaction

 

[Mr Charisma]

Trio is only max tillage if that's how you set it up.

I quite agree

 

[Mr Charisma]

Maybe it is lack of power.... but only go 10km/h With the trio and at that the front legs seem to be only lifting the soil and not boiling it like a topdown ... so shouldn’t be mixing the seed through the profile? But do prefer to go with the disc first now and leave it green up till before the drill to sort out the compaction

With 240 HP I spend most of my time around 7.5 to 8.5 kph

 

[Mr Charisma]

Sometimes referred to as scratch tillage. Seen it practiced but where it was done a bit wetter than ideal the discs smeared a bit underneath & there was a layer of compaction created just below the deepest pass plus wheelings from tractors & trailers. It's a perfectly acceptable way of establishing crops but like all systems, requires the judicious use of a spade to monitor soil structure.

Shallow passes should keep the seed bank in the top couple of inches active but leave the rest. Deeper tillage like the Trio or Topdown would mix seeds throughout the cultivated profile, resulting in a protracted emergence which makes management more tricky and is, in my opinion, the root cause of many current blackgrass problems.

Moreso than crap rotations and over reliance on the chemical store??????

 

[SilliamWhale]

If a soil has just delivered 10t ha of wheat why the big rush to move it all?

I don't get it and never have

 

[Brisel]

Moreso than crap rotations and over reliance on the chemical store??????

I agree. Weed control should be a strategy with multiple methods used. Mixing the seed throughout the profile is not great but it varies with the machines used, soil type, speed, timing etc etc.

 

[Brisel]

If a soil has just delivered 10t ha of wheat why the big rush to move it all?

I don't get it and never have

To repair soil damage from last autumn and get an early start to weed control & weathering down the clods it creates.

 

[CAF]

With 240 HP I spend most of my time around 7.5 to 8.5 kph

What’s your rotation like.... you using the sumo across all your ground?

 

[Two Tone]

Yes a lot of BG problems are layed at trio type cultivation but I think it is slightly unfair because everyone was on crap rotations, now that rotation is the buzz word they are still looking for someone to blame, if you have a good rotation then I think max tillage can have a place, well certainly on our soil type. Yes I have to be very watchful on certain fields but i just keep my fingers crossed

Can’t agree with that and I’m not far from you. We had a 6 year rotation and the Sumo wrecked this farm with Blackgrass.
If my neighbour, with whom we share farm, didn’t keep trying to have a go with it, I’d have happily cut the damned thing up with a gas axe!

You cannot get away from the fact that the Sumo Trio and any other tools like it, thoroughly mix all weed Seeds throughout the soil profile, which = disaster when it comes to Blackgrass control.

 

[Brisel]

There are different leg options for the Sumo, as there are for most of the others. Some do more heaving and mixing than others.

 

[snarling bee]

We have changed the feet on our Simba SLD to low disturbance. Hopefully it has reduced the BG seed mixing, is easier to pull and we get a better tilth. BG seed will fall down the cracks anyway so you will never stop mixing entirely.
It was very noticeable this spring where we had min tilled (50mm) compared to maxi tilled (175mm) with the low disturbance legs. In the min tilled area there were wet spots where there had never been wet spots before. The maxi tilled part of the field there were no wet spots at all.
B******ks to the min till.

 

[Two Tone]

There are different leg options for the Sumo, as there are for most of the others. Some do more heaving and mixing than others.
View attachment 883709

We tried all sorts at varying depths and moving the discs to different depths too. One word describes them all:
Disaster!