200 acre sheep venture

Henarar

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Somerset
The way it is atm it would require 2 tough years getting it settled and then it will be standard management with a decent return for my time. I am not afraid of work and it's what I really want to do. I have a good credit rating and track record so I am gonna give it a last if I can secure funding
how long can you secure it for ?
 

Walterp

Member
Location
Pembrokeshire
Obviously the sums would need to add up but from your first post you gave the impression you wouldn't touch it with a barge pole because of the impending doom and gloom. A younger person with some guts and determination will make it work . Maybe you just aren't 'hungry' enough for it. I know I'm not looking for any more work atm unless something on my doorstep happened to fall into my lap.
That's an impressive set of preconceptions you're carrying around with you there...

Why not take a step back, and start again with no such baggage, and expand your mind?

1. While there may be youngsters just as brave as me, there are none with any more guts or determination.

Those qualities - like risk appetite - are not age-specific. It's an unthinking cliché to equate one with the other: my grandfather kept on buying farms until the day he died (literally, he exchanged contracts on the last one, and never saw completion - his estate completed it).

2. Plus business experience, and Julie already has a now-established flock (that she started from 2 ewe lambs), has no need of additional working capital, and can easily incorporate extra land into her business.

Why do you think farms are getting bigger, and fewer?

3. So, getting rid of those preconceptions, it's simply a business call on the effect of leaving the Internal Market on the UK sheep job.

That's not a hard call - market equilibrium disruption, low prices, until a new (and lower) equilibrium is established.

It's impossible today to predict, but by 8th December 'alles ist klaar' as they say in Berlin - which, by the UK abdicating its power and influence, will now become the only European great power.
 
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Walterp

Member
Location
Pembrokeshire
I'm afraid that's what we all seem to think and therefore it doesn't work.
Thought of the day, at least for me. Thank you.

Let's see how that works out in practice:

1. Julie does not think that Brexit will happen, at least in any meaningful form, simply because the UK cannot afford it. (The evidence, thus far, supports her view, but we shall soon see).

2. But she is cautious, and has her flock expansion plans 'on hold'. I suspect she is typical, because 2017 replacements are not exactly a fever trade. Sensible girl - it's one reason I married her.

3. Let's say she is wrong, and Brexit actually happens. There will be no UK/EU27 trade deal and, as a result, there will be a market collapse. It will be disorderly, ruining the youngsters with 'guts and determination', and testing both the resilience and the patience of established flockmasters.

4. I can see your point that those resilient and patient established flockmasters may accept lower returns because they expect a market correction when a UK/EU27 trade deal is, eventually, attained.

5. It's a very interesting insight.

I suppose it depends upon how definite and how soon, and how beneficial, a UK/EU27 trade deal might become available, given that the average sheep farmer seems now to have an average age of mid-60's (and already in some need of a hip replacement).
 

irish dom

Member
Thought of the day, at least for me. Thank you.

Let's see how that works out in practice:

1. Julie does not think that Brexit will happen, at least in any meaningful form, simply because the UK cannot afford it. (The evidence, thus far, supports her view, but we shall soon see).

2. But she is cautious, and has her flock expansion plans 'on hold'. I suspect she is typical, because 2017 replacements are not exactly a fever trade. Sensible girl - it's one reason I married her.

3. Let's say she is wrong, and Brexit actually happens. There will be no UK/EU27 trade deal and, as a result, there will be a market collapse. It will be disorderly, ruining the youngsters with 'guts and determination', and testing both the resilience and the patience of established flockmasters.

4. I can see your point that those resilient and patient established flockmasters may accept lower returns because they expect a market correction when a UK/EU27 trade deal is, eventually, attained.

5. It's a very interesting insight.

I suppose it depends upon how definite and how soon, and how beneficial, a UK/EU27 trade deal might become available, given that the average sheep farmer seems now to have an average age of mid-60's (and already in some need of a hip replacement).
Interesting insight and i respect your balanced outlook. Been on the road this week scanning early flocks. Met one guy under 60 this morning and he's selling out his sheep. It's sad reflection on the industry as a whole. There are some great young sheep farmers who just need a chance but this doom and gloom no money out of it sh!t that is the call of a vast majority of older guys is putting them off. How are sheep gonna have a future without youth and bravery? It's the same as it's always been. It's always a gamble.
 

Bones

Member
Location
n Ireland
I have been asked if I would be interested in a local estate to lease. I am currently grazing it for the winter off previous tenant who is cutting back. Good land and more importantly completely ring fenced recently. I currently run 400 ewes on other leased blocks after starting with nothing 5 years ago. I have a contracting business that keeps the wheels on.
I am 30 years old and keen to farm in a substantial way. My question is how would people suggest is the best way to stock 200 acres of land coming on stream this spring? I was thinking ewes and lambs. Kill all dodgy ewes at end of summer and replace with good ewe lambs. Then run maternal team of rams until I get what I want in my flock. Suggestions please
I think if I was ever going to expand to out laying farms it would have to be with wool shedding ewes put to terminal rams, on less you can shear yourself it has to be the biggest stumbling block being at the mercy of others to come to you,but best of !uck
 

Walterp

Member
Location
Pembrokeshire
Interesting insight and i respect your balanced outlook. Been on the road this week scanning early flocks. Met one guy under 60 this morning and he's selling out his sheep. It's sad reflection on the industry as a whole. There are some great young sheep farmers who just need a chance but this doom and gloom no money out of it sh!t that is the call of a vast majority of older guys is putting them off. How are sheep gonna have a future without youth and bravery? It's the same as it's always been. It's always a gamble.
I have no idea what other flockmasters' retirement plans might be (none?) but Julie only plans to keep her flock for another 5 or so years, before either passing it on (if our son, now in uni, decides to return home) or dispersing it.

I believe that, after giving it your best shot, there comes a time when farmers should retire (to do something more interesting before it's too late) and let someone else have a go.

I appear to be in a minority...
 

Henarar

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Somerset
I have no idea what other flockmasters' retirement plans might be (none?) but Julie only plans to keep her flock for another 5 or so years, before either passing it on (if our son, now in uni, decides to return home) or dispersing it.
surely you mean he will have to buy the flock ?
 

irish dom

Member
I think if I was ever going to expand to out laying farms it would have to be with wool shedding ewes put to terminal rams, on less you can shear yourself it has to be the biggest stumbling block being at the mercy of others to come to you,but best of !uck
We shear on contract quite a lot of sheep. 2 of us can bang out 500 on a good day so no bother there but for what I get for it it is very questionable having it. Good thing I enjoy clipping but it is a PITA when weather is catchy.
 

irish dom

Member
just have to punch the numbers then
It's one thing I really enjoy when they add up. Not so much when they dont. I usually budget between worst and best case scenario because it's rarely as bad as you think but even more rare it's at the top of expectations. Wee bit of optimism keeps the job going
 

andybk

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Mendips Somerset
havnt read whole thread , but good idea to have a go if the rents reasonable , just have in the back of your mind if its fenced it will have had sheep on before prob for a long time , so grass species and nutrient profile of the ground will need some work as will things like cocci , opportunity wont come along very often .
lets face it sheep prices havnt moved much in 30+ years , we were only talking yesterday about getting £80- 90 in the 80s so doubt lamb prices will drop to far even with britexit they might even improve , will be a bit bumpy for a few years so dont over commit yourself ,keep a bit back to get the ground right good luck
 
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irish dom

Member
havnt read whole thread , but good idea to have a go if the rents reasonable , just have in the back of your mind if its fenced it will have had sheep on before prob for a long time , so grass species and nutrient profile of the ground will need some work as will things like cocci , opportunity wont come along very often .
lets face it sheep prices havnt moved much in 30+ years , we were only talking yesterday about getting £80- 90 in the 80s so doubt lamb prices will drop to far even with britexit they might even improve , will be a bit bumpy for a few years so dont over commit yourself ,keep a bit back to get the ground right good luck
It's had sheep on it for past 20 years. It does need a bit of careful management as it would have been fairly ran down as regards soil fertility. Everything around here that has been rented out is the same. I have improved my current leased blocks and thus my landlords are keen to keep me on. Just because it's not yours doesn't mean you don't have to take pride in it. Hate seeing land abused and there is no point to it as you are only harming your own business I feel
 
It's had sheep on it for past 20 years. It does need a bit of careful management as it would have been fairly ran down as regards soil fertility. Everything around here that has been rented out is the same. I have improved my current leased blocks and thus my landlords are keen to keep me on. Just because it's not yours doesn't mean you don't have to take pride in it. Hate seeing land abused and there is no point to it as you are only harming your own business I feel
It'll probably need lime which won't be cheap but figures I've seen suggest that you get your money back within the year from more grass.
 

new/man

Member
If you went through 2001,foot and mouth selling lambs for £30,which were worth £80,that was terrible.

Sorry but Brexit will not be that bad.

Hard Brexit will mean dearer beef,processors will change to cheaper lamb for ready meals and underpin the price.

Be it a lower price however at a price lamb will become competitive.

We will just have to deal with it.
that's bulls**t
utter bulls**t
 

Bones

Member
Location
n Ireland
We shear on contract quite a lot of sheep. 2 of us can bang out 500 on a good day so no bother there but for what I get for it it is very questionable having it. Good thing I enjoy clipping but it is a PITA when weather is catchy.
If you can shear your own sheep I'd go for it, have you any other job commitments out side of farming ?
 

Nithsdale

Member
Livestock Farmer
It's had sheep on it for past 20 years. It does need a bit of careful management as it would have been fairly ran down as regards soil fertility. Everything around here that has been rented out is the same. I have improved my current leased blocks and thus my landlords are keen to keep me on. Just because it's not yours doesn't mean you don't have to take pride in it. Hate seeing land abused and there is no point to it as you are only harming your own business I feel


You are fortunate your current laird's are keen to keep you on...


Most instances locally here, if the place is run down you get it cheap... you do a bit of investment in the ground, start to sort it out and see a lift in production the laird, or his bloody agent, come wanting huge rent increases or at worst let it to someone else from under your feet :mad:
 

irish dom

Member
If you can shear your own sheep I'd go for it, have you any other job commitments out side of farming ?
Scan cows and sheep shear and mobile dip throughout Ireland. Farming fits around it fairly well. Peak times are usually quiet times on the farm. I am my own boss which helps. I don't see them as much as I should but I try to keep a simple system and avoid any problems before they occur. Sheep are double clipped. Once in June and September. Lambs are let off as stores at Halloween to save place for ewes etc. Sheep are ran through better every 6 weeks during fly season. I have good mobile race and I made yards on hard standing on all farms. Time efficiency is my thing
 

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