2000t stirrer grain store

[Feldspar]

Have some failing grain storage buildings that are getting close to having to be replaced. Most likely candidate for replacement would be a circa 2000t store with grain stirrers and fans with some form of heat.

Looking for a few things. Firstly, any recommendations from farmers of firms who they have had to put this sort of store up, and any ideas of cost would be much appreciated (PM if preferred).

Secondly, any views either way on whether stirrer stores are a good idea or not. Some recent case law I've seen suggests more of a stirrer store can be made tax deductible (always strikes me as weird that other types of store aren't). Against though is additional cost over flat stores and perhaps not as easy for use them for other purposes if grain farming went through a bleak time (e.g. commercial storage).

Views appreciated. Thanks.

 

[Feldspar]

Also interested to hear from anyone how the economics of scale help. I.e. what is the cost of putting in a 4000t store of this type rather than a 2000t one. We have a slight opportunity now to centralise our storage so instead of putting 2x2000t stores up in the next few years, we could think about putting one big one up.

Also, any suggestions of nice to have additional features. My thoughts were weighbridge and at what size decent grain testing facilities start to be sensible.

 

[average farmer]

If going for that kind of size would a batch drier and pedestals not be better and cheaper (not to run) . ? A batch drier could be moved around sites or even hired out in a catchy season or sold .
I have a small area of on floor drying and a small batch drier. The on floor drying is so much easier for drying but the opico is good at drying, getting bussell weight up a few points and cleaning stuff up a bit.
i’d price the floor up and then see what kind of drier you could get for the ££

 

[Feldspar]

If going for that kind of size would a batch drier and pedestals not be better and cheaper (not to run) . ? A batch drier could be moved around sites or even hired out in a catchy season or sold .
I have a small area of on floor drying and a small batch drier. The on floor drying is so much easier for drying but the opico is good at drying, getting bussell weight up a few points and cleaning stuff up a bit.
i’d price the floor up and then see what kind of drier you could get for the ££

A batch drier is certainly something to think about. My one experience of both systems is a neighbouring farmer who had a huge Opico batch drier. He then built a stirrer store subsequently and said he'd do all his stores like this if he were a bit younger.

My particular focus is to make things pretty light on the labour front with very simple logistics. How do you manage your wet grain and how much work does it take to run it and then sort the grain out before and after? We have a 10.90 New Holland rotary which spits a lot of grain out quite quickly so we need to handle the grain pretty slickly at the store end to avoid hold ups. Tipping on air floors always gives a really fast turnaround which I like.

As you say though, £££ are important. If the cost saving on the floors is significant we could always treat a small amount of wet grain differently, even if it meant sending it off to a commercial store with drying (although £9/t store, £6.50 haulage and then drying gets expensive quickly so that you are tempted just not to cut).

 

[Matt77]

I’ve been through a bit of this, but on a smaller scale, and wasn’t planning stirring, the quotes I was getting for onfloor drying was around £250/ton, so that’s not stirring, just barn, floor, tunnel and fan. That was two years ago so probably gone up now.

 

[Happy]

With the right design you can have the whole thing tax deductible If just for grain.

Tax tribunal rules specialist grain store eligible for capital allowances - Strutt & Parker - Rural Hub

A recent decision by the First-tier Tribunal Tax Chamber could mean a greater range of grain storage facilities and equipment qualify for capital allowances than in the past. The Structures and Buildings Allowance was introduced in October 2018, but until then tax relief has not generally been...

www.struttandparker.com

 

[Feldspar]

With the right design you can have the whole thing tax deductible If just for grain.

Tax tribunal rules specialist grain store eligible for capital allowances - Strutt & Parker - Rural Hub

A recent decision by the First-tier Tribunal Tax Chamber could mean a greater range of grain storage facilities and equipment qualify for capital allowances than in the past. The Structures and Buildings Allowance was introduced in October 2018, but until then tax relief has not generally been...

www.struttandparker.com

That's exactly the article I had read.

 

[Honest john]

On behalf of everyone may I thank Mr May.

 

[Feldspar]

I’ve been through a bit of this, but on a smaller scale, and wasn’t planning stirring, the quotes I was getting for onfloor drying was around £250/ton, so that’s not stirring, just barn, floor, tunnel and fan. That was two years ago so probably gone up now.

Thanks. Anyone got any further experience of using stirrer stores?

 

[Longneck]

We went for a stirrer system in our new store (now two years old) mainly because we wanted to store at 4m depth and wanted a fairly easy to run system.
On the whole we’re please. One thing I would do differently tho is to have two separate units (one for each side of store) rather than having to swap them from side to side with a pulley system which is a right pita! Every time you swap them you have to get them exactly lined up square or they won’t run and If the store is totally full you can’t get the augers in because of the grain.
But on the plus side they are great at just conditioning the grain, just moving it helps cool it and means the fans don’t need to work quite so hard.

 

[Honest john]

We went for a stirrer system in our new store (now two years old) mainly because we wanted to store at 4m depth and wanted a fairly easy to run system.
On the whole we’re please. One thing I would do differently tho is to have two separate units (one for each side of store) rather than having to swap them from side to side with a pulley system which is a right pita! Every time you swap them you have to get them exactly lined up square or they won’t run and If the store is totally full you can’t get the augers in because of the grain.
But on the plus side they are great at just conditioning the grain, just moving it helps cool it and means the fans don’t need to work quite so hard.

What size is your store please.
Also can you level fill to your doors.
if so what type of barrier do you have.

 

[Longneck]

Sorry for not replying sooner.

the store is 24m x 48m (I think)

we don’t level fill to the door as
A. We don’t need to at the moment. B. The fan/burner is on top of the tunnel and unless we modify the stirrer control box it would foul on the fans so it doesn’t come past the first bay at the moment.
This could easily be sorted if we ever needed the extra storage.

 

[Daniel]

Would a couple of 1000t silos with stirrers be 100% tax deductible?

 

[Banana Bar]

Feldspar, you need to speak to Richard M

 

[T Hectares]

We built two 2000t stores for harvest '17
Stirrers are essential on a store this size, mine has 3.6m high walls which I can stack 20% wheat into if needed and dry at that depth, there's no problem with changing future use of the stores, the runners unbolt and the stirrer is lifted off with a telehandler.

I have Record stirrers, Pellcroft tunnels and fans and Challow floors, buildings made by Lowthers
Wooden panels in the doorway which I bucket fill and empty.

The only things I would have done different would be to buy another stirrer to avoid moving between bays, it's slow, dangerous and can impede drying sharing one between two bays, I intend to buy another if the small item capital grants open again.

I'd have put a weighbridge in too in an ideal world, however the NH weigher is pretty accurate, the whole project was going to be over budget from the start so we compromised and only put floors and stirrers in one building, the second is a flat store but set up for floors to go in the future, I often dry/cool osr on the challow floor and move over to the flat store, we then normally have a wet bay each for barley and wheat and a dry bay on the flat store side, occasionally I have to bucket a bit grain across to a dry bay but it's a lot easier than manning / maintaining a CF store...

Spending a bit more on automated fan / humidity controls is worth it, I have temperature probes than then can control cooling in the winter, a great way to store grain, 4 x large extraction fans mean no condensation dripping when drying.

Feel free to PM for anymore info

 

[Flat 10]

Would a couple of 1000t silos with stirrers be 100% tax deductible?

I believe so.

 

[d williams]

We built two 2000t stores for harvest '17
Stirrers are essential on a store this size, mine has 3.6m high walls which I can stack 20% wheat into if needed and dry at that depth, there's no problem with changing future use of the stores, the runners unbolt and the stirrer is lifted off with a telehandler.

I have Record stirrers, Pellcroft tunnels and fans and Challow floors, buildings made by Lowthers
Wooden panels in the doorway which I bucket fill and empty.

The only things I would have done different would be to buy another stirrer to avoid moving between bays, it's slow, dangerous and can impede drying sharing one between two bays, I intend to buy another if the small item capital grants open again.

I'd have put a weighbridge in too in an ideal world, however the NH weigher is pretty accurate, the whole project was going to be over budget from the start so we compromised and only put floors and stirrers in one building, the second is a flat store but set up for floors to go in the future, I often dry/cool osr on the challow floor and move over to the flat store, we then normally have a wet bay each for barley and wheat and a dry bay on the flat store side, occasionally I have to bucket a bit grain across to a dry bay but it's a lot easier than manning / maintaining a CF store...

Spending a bit more on automated fan / humidity controls is worth it, I have temperature probes than then can control cooling in the winter, a great way to store grain, 4 x large extraction fans mean no condensation dripping when drying.

Feel free to PM for anymore info

If you add new stirring could I suggest going 6inch diameter as I believe you do wood chip? Moves a lot more product and increase productivity

 

[T Hectares]

If you add new stirring could I suggest going 6inch diameter as I believe you do wood chip? Moves a lot more product and increase productivity

I'd certainly look at it, but it's very unlikely these stores would be used for woodchip in the near future...

Although you never know !!

 

[Foxcover]

We built two 2000t stores for harvest '17
Stirrers are essential on a store this size, mine has 3.6m high walls which I can stack 20% wheat into if needed and dry at that depth, there's no problem with changing future use of the stores, the runners unbolt and the stirrer is lifted off with a telehandler.

I have Record stirrers, Pellcroft tunnels and fans and Challow floors, buildings made by Lowthers
Wooden panels in the doorway which I bucket fill and empty.

The only things I would have done different would be to buy another stirrer to avoid moving between bays, it's slow, dangerous and can impede drying sharing one between two bays, I intend to buy another if the small item capital grants open again.

I'd have put a weighbridge in too in an ideal world, however the NH weigher is pretty accurate, the whole project was going to be over budget from the start so we compromised and only put floors and stirrers in one building, the second is a flat store but set up for floors to go in the future, I often dry/cool osr on the challow floor and move over to the flat store, we then normally have a wet bay each for barley and wheat and a dry bay on the flat store side, occasionally I have to bucket a bit grain across to a dry bay but it's a lot easier than manning / maintaining a CF store...

Spending a bit more on automated fan / humidity controls is worth it, I have temperature probes than then can control cooling in the winter, a great way to store grain, 4 x large extraction fans mean no condensation dripping when drying.

Feel free to PM for anymore info

What size sheds are those? And do you just have drying floors in one of them and flat concrete in the other?

 

[Feldspar]

We built two 2000t stores for harvest '17
Stirrers are essential on a store this size, mine has 3.6m high walls which I can stack 20% wheat into if needed and dry at that depth, there's no problem with changing future use of the stores, the runners unbolt and the stirrer is lifted off with a telehandler.

I have Record stirrers, Pellcroft tunnels and fans and Challow floors, buildings made by Lowthers
Wooden panels in the doorway which I bucket fill and empty.

The only things I would have done different would be to buy another stirrer to avoid moving between bays, it's slow, dangerous and can impede drying sharing one between two bays, I intend to buy another if the small item capital grants open again.

I'd have put a weighbridge in too in an ideal world, however the NH weigher is pretty accurate, the whole project was going to be over budget from the start so we compromised and only put floors and stirrers in one building, the second is a flat store but set up for floors to go in the future, I often dry/cool osr on the challow floor and move over to the flat store, we then normally have a wet bay each for barley and wheat and a dry bay on the flat store side, occasionally I have to bucket a bit grain across to a dry bay but it's a lot easier than manning / maintaining a CF store...

Spending a bit more on automated fan / humidity controls is worth it, I have temperature probes than then can control cooling in the winter, a great way to store grain, 4 x large extraction fans mean no condensation dripping when drying.

Feel free to PM for anymore info

@T Hectares, many apologies I appear to have omitted to thank you very much for this post. I'm now revisiting this all again and it's been very helpful to reread this. How often do you fill a drying bay and then shift onto a flat floor (or is this just moving the odd 50t rather than a whole side)? I am trying to get my head around how practical this is to do routinely with a decent loader and whether the hassle is worth it if it means not having to have an extra set of drying floors.