2019 Beet area

DrWazzock

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lincolnshire
The BBRO advice is to apply it all by full emergence of the crop. With hindsight and several disasters i have now come to the conclusion that this is wrong advice on land prone to leaching.
I should have made several applications spread from full emergence to 1st August.
 

alomy75

Member
The BBRO advice is to apply it all by full emergence of the crop. With hindsight and several disasters i have now come to the conclusion that this is wrong advice on land prone to leaching.
I should have made several applications spread from full emergence to 1st August.

I would have to check but I’m 99% sure BBRO advice would be to just repeat RB209 guidance which certainly doesn’t say put the full 120 on by full emergence. From memory it’s 80kg by full emergence and 40kg by the 2 leaf stage (assuming your land needs the full 120). BBRO wasn’t as prominent as it is now when RB209 was constructed but BS certainly had a say in its recommendations.
 

Flat 10

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Fen Edge
I would have to check but I’m 99% sure BBRO advice would be to just repeat RB209 guidance which certainly doesn’t say put the full 120 on by full emergence. From memory it’s 80kg by full emergence and 40kg by the 2 leaf stage (assuming your land needs the full 120). BBRO wasn’t as prominent as it is now when RB209 was constructed but BS certainly had a say in its recommendations.
I thought it said like you above but couldn’t be bothered to look it up.
 

robbie

Member
BASIS
My take on beet N from a light land point of view is, first N of about 1/3 of total after drilling. Tiny little seedlings 20 inches apart arnt going to find and make use of huge amounts of N as they just haven't got the root structure.

2nd N which is the balance of the artificial N I apply at about the 6-8 leaf stage. By then the beet plants have the roots to capture the available N and have used the first dose.

Then from about full canopy I recon the beet have then got onto the applied muck and the muck has broke down enough to become available to the plant and this keeps them going through the rest of the season.

In the absence of muck id do three equal splits at the above timings.
Obviously all N max, rb209 and Nvz rules are followed and the amount of artificial N is reduced to allow for N from organic manures.

I would go as far as saying I agree with @DrWazzock that the 120 kgN/ha limit isn't enough for light land, you've only got to look at what the potential is from beet planted on top of old muck heaps to see what is possible even with a full plant and no gaps the beet are huge.
 

Honest john

Member
Location
Fenland
The bit on which I hand applied some nitrate is now a very healthy green. The rest of the beet on the sand is as yellow as a fluorescent jacket.

I did apply 120kg N by the full emergence stage. It's fine on the heavy land where it wasn't washed through by the 4" of rain in June but totally totally inadequate on the sand which leaches like a sieve. The tramlines and field edges are OK because the nitrate is concentrated in the tramlines when it swills and there is less competition at gearings and gaps and edges.

No useful advice on this matter from the levy takers of course. You have to do your own trials and make your own mind up, but the rigid 120 kg N by full emergence advice is a joke IMO. A one size fits all joke. If these levy takers want to earn their money they are going to have to get a bit more savvy about tailoring nitrate requirement to conditions as they unfold during the season, rather applying it in one dollop and closing the gate on it.

Protein plus from Omex maybe ? Other companies sell it to.
 

DrWazzock

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lincolnshire
Page 28 of the BBRO beet manual says all the N should be on by full emergence. All field managers have told me to do that as well.

I don't agree with them. I tend to agree with the approach taken by @robbie . Delaying some of the N is much more sensible. Some slow release organic N also sounds like a very good idea.

A bit more fine tuning needed.
 

alomy75

Member
Page 28 of the BBRO beet manual says all the N should be on by full emergence. All field managers have told me to do that as well.

I don't agree with them. I tend to agree with the approach taken by @robbie . Delaying some of the N is much more sensible. Some slow release organic N also sounds like a very good idea.

A bit more fine tuning needed.

Apologies; after checking it’s 40kg followed by 80kg...not the other way round as per my previous. It all comes down to the definition of ‘emergence’ and ‘full emergence’. It’s referring to the 2-leaf stage because any more than that and the fert prills get caught by the plant and scorch it. I use liquid which really is a dark art...we’ve been told to follow rb209 by some, put it all in pre-drilling by others and to put it on in 2 splits at full emergence (2 leaves) and then at 6-8 leaves. We do the last option preferably on to a wet leaf but of course it dribbles off and we have no scorch issues. Sprayed my beet yesterday...just starting to find an odd rust spot here and there
 

Spud

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
YO62
The BS e-mail received today suggests more?

It does indeed. It says that the one yr price offered is better than £20.41 as it is now, or £19.07 in old money. (After crown tare has been removed)

The email says 2017 level 3yr deal, so £22/t. Given the increased risks of virus yellows now, I'd like to see that nearer £24.

Why the hell should we carry a the risk for such a paltry reward.

The harder we pedal the bike of yield, the steeper the hill to success gets.

My late father was getting £38/t for his 18.5t/ac beet crop in 1984. £700/ac top line, with much much lower costs to get it.
Today my average is nearly double 1984's level, but my costs are also double (at least). Top line remains about the same.
We're all running faster to stand still.

One year beet needs to be £22/t at least, three year commitments need rewarding by at least another couple of quid on top.
 

alomy75

Member
It does indeed. It says that the one yr price offered is better than £20.41 as it is now, or £19.07 in old money. (After crown tare has been removed)

The email says 2017 level 3yr deal, so £22/t. Given the increased risks of virus yellows now, I'd like to see that nearer £24.

Why the hell should we carry a the risk for such a paltry reward.

The harder we pedal the bike of yield, the steeper the hill to success gets.

My late father was getting £38/t for his 18.5t/ac beet crop in 1984. £700/ac top line, with much much lower costs to get it.
Today my average is nearly double 1984's level, but my costs are also double (at least). Top line remains about the same.
We're all running faster to stand still.

One year beet needs to be £22/t at least, three year commitments need rewarding by at least another couple of quid on top.

Why remove the crown tare? It’s part of the price and it’s always the same
 

Flat 10

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Fen Edge
Looks like this gossip at least was correct.
I will listen avidly in future ;).
Glad you were right. After this year the 6.6% crown tare is being abolished. Costs are likely to increase going forward with phendipham due to go and future of ethfumosate uncertain.
 

Spud

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
YO62
Why remove the crown tare? It’s part of the price and it’s always the same

I agree.

To compare apples with apples (ie to form a comparison between present and past) it needs to be known wether its included in calculations or not. eg my 2018 3yr deal price is in theory £22.50/t, but theres 6.61% of that I never see, due to crown tare, so really, the price is £21.12/t Dirty weight and adjusted weight are never too far from each other.

Similarly, the current one year price of £19.07/t is effectively 93.39% of what it would be prior to the crown tare being abolished. £20.41/t to be comparable to the 3yr deal price (because the crown tare still exists on current 3yr deals)

Not foggy at all is it :unsure:
 

alomy75

Member
Desmedipham is due to be revoked. Hopefully (fingers doubly crossed) we shall retain phenmendipham. Pedantic point I appreciate. Cheers

I’ve heard.....that if one goes both will go due to their similarities. Conviso, if priced correctly, might arrive at just the right time...
 

alomy75

Member
Or they just banned them as conviso arrived....... me cynical?

Ye of little faith! It will no doubt be priced at the same level (or just above) 3 applications of goltix/maxxpro else no one would buy it...unless...you have weed beet. If it makes the difference between getting a crop of beet and not; that’s got to be worth a bit. So do they price it for these growers who would pay more than those just wanting to simplify their weed control...who knows. To be honest; etho is more crop safe than the ‘mediphams so it might be a blessing in disguise; makes Agronomy a little more taxing tho!
 

Flat 10

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Fen Edge
Ye of little faith! It will no doubt be priced at the same level (or just above) 3 applications of goltix/maxxpro else no one would buy it...unless...you have weed beet. If it makes the difference between getting a crop of beet and not; that’s got to be worth a bit. So do they price it for these growers who would pay more than those just wanting to simplify their weed control...who knows. To be honest; etho is more crop safe than the ‘mediphams so it might be a blessing in disguise; makes Agronomy a little more taxing tho!
Really? I always use straight phendipham on tiny beet and never worry about hurting them........
 

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