250,000 heifer

Hilly

Member
P.-I (persistent infector) haha šŸ˜†
Sc
Thatā€™s one of those songs that sends me back to a point in time. June 1993, 16, left school & moved in with Grandparents to work on farm. Radio that Iā€™d bought with first weeks wages taped to dash of db 1290 carting silage in the sun. Every time I hear it Iā€™m back in that moment with a smile on my face!

Ah, this thread has taken a turn for the better!
My memories of silage was Atlantic 252 and the b52s love shack , think they had it on repeat and we had a slow wrapper in them day used to still be wrapping at 2am fairy regulary and the b52s never missed a beat.
 

beefandsleep

Member
Location
Staffordshire
We do not use the double muscle cattle. I was not the one that used our cattle as an example. The system that a person uses to sell there beef will always determine the type of cattle they use. It is the same worldwide.

Probably the first sensible comment. The payment grid will always determine the type of cattle kept by and large. We are always told to produce what the customer wants to buy rather than what we want to produce.
Thatā€™s why lims are currently number 1.
 
Maybe that's the way you're seeing it. It isn't what I intended.
I don't know where we can take this.

I haven't trawled through the whole post - I'm wholly unexcited by a lim making Ā£250k.
It doesn't prove 'lims are best' any more than a Ā£50k blackie tup proves blackies are best.
(which has given rise to the whole hokum idea that you measure a blackie tup by how much you paid for it...when some of the best I've had were feral unmarked strays bred by forest pixies on the hill. sometimes a bottle of scotch might be sent to the presumed breeder!)

If anything, I suspect there's a cross pollination going on between subsidised farmers spending their subs feeding loss making beasts -whilst pretending to themselves that they're in profit, and a 'wannabe in the top dollar club' investment scheme.
As we've already identified, lims don't tend to proliferate where there's no direct subs.
that alone probably says more than I can.

I think I also pointed out, several days ago, that if the 'best' in the country is only worth Ā£250k, then the job is evidently bollixed.

Good luck with em.
This is probably the most factually incorrect post I have read on here for some time
The reason we changed to Limousin cattle in the early 80s was because the market demanded lean good conformation cattle
Nothing else
There may be folks who buy the very expensive breeding heifers which are questionable for returns but many of us arenā€™t included in that loop
Having hill land requires suckler cows to be more profitable than lower lying land and requires calves fit for the store markets Almost the opposite of what you are writing
A good Limousin bull can breed you high value cattle out of good quality cows and poorer quality ones alike
Store or weaners easily sold even in difficult trades without having the trouble of having to finish or near finish them to be saleable
 

egbert

Member
Livestock Farmer
This is probably the most factually incorrect post I have read on here for some time
The reason we changed to Limousin cattle in the early 80s was because the market demanded lean good conformation cattle
Nothing else
There may be folks who buy the very expensive breeding heifers which are questionable for returns but many of us arenā€™t included in that loop
Having hill land requires suckler cows to be more profitable than lower lying land ????EH? and requires calves fit for the store markets Almost the opposite of what you are writing
A good Limousin bull can breed you high value cattle out of good quality cows and poorer quality ones alike
Store or weaners easily sold even in difficult trades without having the trouble of having to finish or near finish them to be saleable

ooo ooo ooo....I must rush out and buy a 'good' limo bull immediately.
A 40 year old market trend must be the answer.
After all, the price of what the market demands now so far outstrips all inflationary measures, it must be right to chase it.

Or, on reflection, you know I might not.
See, I run 2 herds. 40-50 purebred South Devons, and 90 odd Galloways -of mixed hues.

The SDs live out, at 1000', in 90" of rain.
The 2 main groups (18 adult cattle apiece) are eating 1 bale of home grown fodder each daily.
They hardly see any mineral soils- most of what they live on is thin peat/bracken/rocks/bog.
The herd is older than the pedigree herdbook by many decades -possibly centuries

The pure bred steers last year averaged a bit over Ā£600 at 5-7 months.
No creep feed, not corn at all in the system -except what their mothers ate as youngsters.
Nothing I see at suckled calf sales, but nothing, persuades me I should follow a different path.

I sometimes cross the first calvers with AA, and accept a bit of a hit price wise.
Surplus heifers are unsurprisingly generally pretty sought after as bullers.

Having my choice of replacement heifers is pretty much beyond value to me. If I'm not continually picking the best, the herd goes downhill quickly.
You can't keep such big cattle under such brutal conditions without watching this very carefully - or so it seems to me after a lifetime.
Using a terminal sire on such a herd was what my Dad did when he was deep in his cups, and badly out of the wherewithal....the resultant damage to the herd was years correcting.

The Galloways live on the harder ground - deep peat and 100" plus rain, most of their lives.
Obviously, the economics are wholly skewed by enviro schemes/NBAR payments/pedigree values for surplus breeding stock and all of that.
I certainly wouldn't make much of a living from the steers alone...but then, I won't have lost much either.

Tight gutted things ill equipped to chew on bilberry and trash soon reveal themselves come Septembers end.

Again, I'd be very reluctant to cross them, as the choice of replacement females carries a huge dividend...hard to quantify until you lose a 100 year old herd in FMD, and have to discover how bought in cattle fare.
I can see some around me following the 'creep feeding/conti sired' route, but they sure don't seem to be any better off than me.
In fact, they seem to be bemoaning finances as much as anyone.

The acid test is when a block of land comes up, and you find out who has got the most surplus cash.
I ain't got much, that's a fact...but I'm pretty damn sure the limo breeders ain't got much more.
But then, facts are hard to nail down, aren't they?
 
ooo ooo ooo....I must rush out and buy a 'good' limo bull immediately.
A 40 year old market trend must be the answer.
After all, the price of what the market demands now so far outstrips all inflationary measures, it must be right to chase it.

Or, on reflection, you know I might not.
See, I run 2 herds. 40-50 purebred South Devons, and 90 odd Galloways -of mixed hues.

The SDs live out, at 1000', in 90" of rain.
The 2 main groups (18 adult cattle apiece) are eating 1 bale of home grown fodder each daily.
They hardly see any mineral soils- most of what they live on is thin peat/bracken/rocks/bog.
The herd is older than the pedigree herdbook by many decades -possibly centuries

The pure bred steers last year averaged a bit over Ā£600 at 5-7 months.
No creep feed, not corn at all in the system -except what their mothers ate as youngsters.
Nothing I see at suckled calf sales, but nothing, persuades me I should follow a different path.

I sometimes cross the first calvers with AA, and accept a bit of a hit price wise.
Surplus heifers are unsurprisingly generally pretty sought after as bullers.

Having my choice of replacement heifers is pretty much beyond value to me. If I'm not continually picking the best, the herd goes downhill quickly.
You can't keep such big cattle under such brutal conditions without watching this very carefully - or so it seems to me after a lifetime.
Using a terminal sire on such a herd was what my Dad did when he was deep in his cups, and badly out of the wherewithal....the resultant damage to the herd was years correcting.

The Galloways live on the harder ground - deep peat and 100" plus rain, most of their lives.
Obviously, the economics are wholly skewed by enviro schemes/NBAR payments/pedigree values for surplus breeding stock and all of that.
I certainly wouldn't make much of a living from the steers alone...but then, I won't have lost much either.

Tight gutted things ill equipped to chew on bilberry and trash soon reveal themselves come Septembers end.

Again, I'd be very reluctant to cross them, as the choice of replacement females carries a huge dividend...hard to quantify until you lose a 100 year old herd in FMD, and have to discover how bought in cattle fare.
I can see some around me following the 'creep feeding/conti sired' route, but they sure don't seem to be any better off than me.
In fact, they seem to be bemoaning finances as much as anyone.

The acid test is when a block of land comes up, and you find out who has got the most surplus cash.
I ain't got much, that's a fact...but I'm pretty damn sure the limo breeders ain't got much more.
But then, facts are hard to nail down, aren't they?

You have a good System going there, and i am pretty sure once you take into account creep feeding, hard calvings etc, you will just be more profitable than a herd of fancy terminal type cows. But i would not dismiss all continental cattle my Sim x hill cows will run on alot harder wetter ground than yours and never see a bale of fodder, Cows cost Ā£150 to winter and bullocks averaged Ā£720 at 6 months old with no creep. The secret is maternal cows and nothing can compete with the Simmental on this front!
 

Purli R

Member
ooo ooo ooo....I must rush out and buy a 'good' limo bull immediately.
A 40 year old market trend must be the answer.
After all, the price of what the market demands now so far outstrips all inflationary measures, it must be right to chase it.

Or, on reflection, you know I might not.
See, I run 2 herds. 40-50 purebred South Devons, and 90 odd Galloways -of mixed hues.

The SDs live out, at 1000', in 90" of rain.
The 2 main groups (18 adult cattle apiece) are eating 1 bale of home grown fodder each daily.
They hardly see any mineral soils- most of what they live on is thin peat/bracken/rocks/bog.
The herd is older than the pedigree herdbook by many decades -possibly centuries

The pure bred steers last year averaged a bit over Ā£600 at 5-7 months.
No creep feed, not corn at all in the system -except what their mothers ate as youngsters.
Nothing I see at suckled calf sales, but nothing, persuades me I should follow a different path.

I sometimes cross the first calvers with AA, and accept a bit of a hit price wise.
Surplus heifers are unsurprisingly generally pretty sought after as bullers.

Having my choice of replacement heifers is pretty much beyond value to me. If I'm not continually picking the best, the herd goes downhill quickly.
You can't keep such big cattle under such brutal conditions without watching this very carefully - or so it seems to me after a lifetime.
Using a terminal sire on such a herd was what my Dad did when he was deep in his cups, and badly out of the wherewithal....the resultant damage to the herd was years correcting.

The Galloways live on the harder ground - deep peat and 100" plus rain, most of their lives.
Obviously, the economics are wholly skewed by enviro schemes/NBAR payments/pedigree values for surplus breeding stock and all of that.
I certainly wouldn't make much of a living from the steers alone...but then, I won't have lost much either.

Tight gutted things ill equipped to chew on bilberry and trash soon reveal themselves come Septembers end.

Again, I'd be very reluctant to cross them, as the choice of replacement females carries a huge dividend...hard to quantify until you lose a 100 year old herd in FMD, and have to discover how bought in cattle fare.
I can see some around me following the 'creep feeding/conti sired' route, but they sure don't seem to be any better off than me.
In fact, they seem to be bemoaning finances as much as anyone.

The acid test is when a block of land comes up, and you find out who has got the most surplus cash.
I ain't got much, that's a fact...but I'm pretty damn sure the limo breeders ain't got much more.
But then, facts are hard to nail down, aren't they?
Some post that! cant argue with that (y) Other than the highest rainfall on Dartmoor & Exmoor is 80" yr so you must live in a bloody wet hole.:D:LOL::LOL:
 

Cowgirl

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Ayrshire
ā€œA forty year old market trend must be the answerā€ - brilliant! Thatā€™s just the point isnā€™t it? Times and markets change, the climate is changing, peopleā€™s tastes change. The land doesnā€™t change much though and farming I fear is about to get even harder. Also we are all getting older and new young people with ideas will always be coming in. Who knows where we will be in 5-10 years? In the meantime if a millionaire wants to play with a 250K heifer, I suppose there is nothing to stop him - I just feel it perpetuates the idea in the public mindset that farmers are all wealthy.
 
ooo ooo ooo....I must rush out and buy a 'good' limo bull immediately.
A 40 year old market trend must be the answer.
After all, the price of what the market demands now so far outstrips all inflationary measures, it must be right to chase it.

Or, on reflection, you know I might not.
See, I run 2 herds. 40-50 purebred South Devons, and 90 odd Galloways -of mixed hues.

The SDs live out, at 1000', in 90" of rain.
The 2 main groups (18 adult cattle apiece) are eating 1 bale of home grown fodder each daily.
They hardly see any mineral soils- most of what they live on is thin peat/bracken/rocks/bog.
The herd is older than the pedigree herdbook by many decades -possibly centuries

The pure bred steers last year averaged a bit over Ā£600 at 5-7 months.
No creep feed, not corn at all in the system -except what their mothers ate as youngsters.
Nothing I see at suckled calf sales, but nothing, persuades me I should follow a different path.

I sometimes cross the first calvers with AA, and accept a bit of a hit price wise.
Surplus heifers are unsurprisingly generally pretty sought after as bullers.

Having my choice of replacement heifers is pretty much beyond value to me. If I'm not continually picking the best, the herd goes downhill quickly.
You can't keep such big cattle under such brutal conditions without watching this very carefully - or so it seems to me after a lifetime.
Using a terminal sire on such a herd was what my Dad did when he was deep in his cups, and badly out of the wherewithal....the resultant damage to the herd was years correcting.

The Galloways live on the harder ground - deep peat and 100" plus rain, most of their lives.
Obviously, the economics are wholly skewed by enviro schemes/NBAR payments/pedigree values for surplus breeding stock and all of that.
I certainly wouldn't make much of a living from the steers alone...but then, I won't have lost much either.

Tight gutted things ill equipped to chew on bilberry and trash soon reveal themselves come Septembers end.

Again, I'd be very reluctant to cross them, as the choice of replacement females carries a huge dividend...hard to quantify until you lose a 100 year old herd in FMD, and have to discover how bought in cattle fare.
I can see some around me following the 'creep feeding/conti sired' route, but they sure don't seem to be any better off than me.
In fact, they seem to be bemoaning finances as much as anyone.

The acid test is when a block of land comes up, and you find out who has got the most surplus cash.
I ain't got much, that's a fact...but I'm pretty damn sure the limo breeders ain't got much more.
But then, facts are hard to nail down, aren't they?
Youm using the wrong sort of Angus if you are getting a hit Price wise. You're welcome to come and look at some Angus bulls on Exmoor anytime. šŸ‘
 

egbert

Member
Livestock Farmer
You have a good System going there, and i am pretty sure once you take into account creep feeding, hard calvings etc, you will just be more profitable than a herd of fancy terminal type cows. But i would not dismiss all continental cattle my Sim x hill cows will run on alot harder wetter ground than yours and never see a bale of fodder, Cows cost Ā£150 to winter and bullocks averaged Ā£720 at 6 months old with no creep. The secret is maternal cows and nothing can compete with the Simmental on this front!
Thanks
Sim/Luing?
A lot wetter? Jeezums...how many inches?
I did see a lot of Sims/Flecks in the alps on my herding jollies a coupla years ago.
As for creep... it's not the cost of the grub that kills it, it's the labour. I tried, but can't see the return.

Some post that! cant argue with that (y) Other than the highest rainfall on Dartmoor & Exmoor is 80" yr so you must live in a bloody wet hole.:D:LOL::LOL:

Ryders Hill average lately is 112-114", top in recent years was 126", Hessary tor would be up there.
Swincombe intake was on 96" last year I looked.

Exmoor? Hawkridge use to average about 100" as I recall




Youm using the wrong sort of Angus if you are getting a hit Price wise. You're welcome to come and look at some Angus bulls on Exmoor anytime. šŸ‘
Might do. (killed latest homebred after he bent his todge, poor beggar)
Mind, I don't want an AA thats the size of a SD....wouldn't be much point.
I want em as they were before 'belt buckle' days!
 

Henarar

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Somerset
Thanks
Sim/Luing?
A lot wetter? Jeezums...how many inches?
I did see a lot of Sims/Flecks in the alps on my herding jollies a coupla years ago.
As for creep... it's not the cost of the grub that kills it, it's the labour. I tried, but can't see the return.



Ryders Hill average lately is 112-114", top in recent years was 126", Hessary tor would be up there.
Swincombe intake was on 96" last year I looked.

Exmoor? Hawkridge use to average about 100" as I recall





Might do. (killed latest homebred after he bent his todge, poor beggar)
Mind, I don't want an AA thats the size of a SD....wouldn't be much point.
I want em as they were before 'belt buckle' days!
Our new bull, Ding Valley Egbert
Tis the future ya no
20210216_125657.jpg
20210216_125536.jpg
 

Bill the Bass

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Cumbria
a
ooo ooo ooo....I must rush out and buy a 'good' limo bull immediately.
A 40 year old market trend must be the answer.
After all, the price of what the market demands now so far outstrips all inflationary measures, it must be right to chase it.

Or, on reflection, you know I might not.
See, I run 2 herds. 40-50 purebred South Devons, and 90 odd Galloways -of mixed hues.

The SDs live out, at 1000', in 90" of rain.
The 2 main groups (18 adult cattle apiece) are eating 1 bale of home grown fodder each daily.
They hardly see any mineral soils- most of what they live on is thin peat/bracken/rocks/bog.
The herd is older than the pedigree herdbook by many decades -possibly centuries

The pure bred steers last year averaged a bit over Ā£600 at 5-7 months.
No creep feed, not corn at all in the system -except what their mothers ate as youngsters.
Nothing I see at suckled calf sales, but nothing, persuades me I should follow a different path.

I sometimes cross the first calvers with AA, and accept a bit of a hit price wise.
Surplus heifers are unsurprisingly generally pretty sought after as bullers.

Having my choice of replacement heifers is pretty much beyond value to me. If I'm not continually picking the best, the herd goes downhill quickly.
You can't keep such big cattle under such brutal conditions without watching this very carefully - or so it seems to me after a lifetime.
Using a terminal sire on such a herd was what my Dad did when he was deep in his cups, and badly out of the wherewithal....the resultant damage to the herd was years correcting.

The Galloways live on the harder ground - deep peat and 100" plus rain, most of their lives.
Obviously, the economics are wholly skewed by enviro schemes/NBAR payments/pedigree values for surplus breeding stock and all of that.
I certainly wouldn't make much of a living from the steers alone...but then, I won't have lost much either.

Tight gutted things ill equipped to chew on bilberry and trash soon reveal themselves come Septembers end.

Again, I'd be very reluctant to cross them, as the choice of replacement females carries a huge dividend...hard to quantify until you lose a 100 year old herd in FMD, and have to discover how bought in cattle fare.
I can see some around me following the 'creep feeding/conti sired' route, but they sure don't seem to be any better off than me.
In fact, they seem to be bemoaning finances as much as anyone.

The acid test is when a block of land comes up, and you find out who has got the most surplus cash.
I ain't got much, that's a fact...but I'm pretty damn sure the limo breeders ain't got much more.
But then, facts are hard to nail down, aren't they?
I donā€™t think anyone has told you to go out and buy a Limousin have they? He was simply saying why in his opinion the breed is so popular

However, Seeing as your so self indulgent about your business, I will indulge you;

As far as I can tell, Itā€™s not surprising you havenā€™t much of a cash surplus if your calves only come to Ā£600 per head and your Galloways, by your own admission even less. So you have 40- 50 SD cows, letā€™s be generous and say 50, presumably half steers 25 x Ā£600 = Ā£15000, a few surplus heifers to sell and an odd geld cow even if nothing dies. Christ your galloways must sh!t gold bricks. Even if they cost nothing to rear your business still generates sod all cash - barely even a rental equivalent. But if selling pot bellied, fish arsed hairy pillocks is what you enjoy then I raise my glass to you.

Oh and by the way, 100ā€™ of rain? Thatā€™s a drought in most valleys up here.
 

crofteress

Member
Livestock Farmer
Remember it's not all about what kind of cattle we like , we supply an industry that needs to make a profit and kill out plus shape equals profit . Lengh and shape and width are profit to the industry . The good cattle hold up the poor stuff in the ring . As for keeping them out on poor ground well there are limousin cows on the worst of ground and in the worst of weather up here in the North West highlands and they are easier fleshing than the natives , and they don't drag their udders through the bog once they have had a few calves either
 
Fairly amusing hearing people breeding rubbish bullocks at the expense of breeding the types of heifers they think they need when a good few of mine are bought for breeding cattle by people who sell good quality breeding cattle
Oh and our rainfall is up a fair bit on theirs too
 

egbert

Member
Livestock Farmer
a

I donā€™t think anyone has told you to go out and buy a Limousin have they? He was simply saying why in his opinion the breed is so popular

However, Seeing as your so self indulgent about your business, I will indulge you;

As far as I can tell, Itā€™s not surprising you havenā€™t much of a cash surplus if your calves only come to Ā£600 per head and your Galloways, by your own admission even less. So you have 40- 50 SD cows, letā€™s be generous and say 50, presumably half steers 25 x Ā£600 = Ā£15000, a few surplus heifers to sell and an odd geld cow even if nothing dies. Christ your galloways must sh!t gold bricks. Even if they cost nothing to rear your business still generates sod all cash - barely even a rental equivalent. But if selling pot bellied, fish arsed hairy pillocks is what you enjoy then I raise my glass to you.

Oh and by the way, 100ā€™ of rain? Thatā€™s a drought in most valleys up here.

I don't know how it works in Cumbria, but down here, Ā£600 for a 5 month old calf straight off the hill would be considered pretty good money.
(my buyers tell me repeatedly how good a trade it is)
Obviously, there's those who creep feed conti's, and call 11-12 month old animals suckled calves*....but I wouldn't want to do all that work for an extra 200-300 quid.
My time is worth rather more than that.
*And by golly I'd like to see that sort of calf off peat with more than 100" of rain. They're soon whisked away from the hill locally....if they ever get up there.

You don't know how much cash my business generates - although you could find out quite a lot if you navigated companies house i spose.
(cattle sales would be north of Ā£60k.....c.o.p maybe 150% of that)
Perhaps if I didn't have other business interests i might chase farming harder - I might even buy a charolais bull again, and try corning the calves.
But I've enjoyed farming a whole lot more since i realised it's a hobby, and try to ensure it doesn't lose too much.

Keep what you like, it's your concern.
And by all means call other peoples cattle rude names if it makes you feel better...it certainly reflects more on you than it does me.
 

egbert

Member
Livestock Farmer
Fairly amusing hearing people breeding rubbish bullocks at the expense of breeding the types of heifers they think they need when a good few of mine are bought for breeding cattle by people who sell good quality breeding cattle
Oh and our rainfall is up a fair bit on theirs too
What sort of rainfall are you on then?

I was looking at some northern stats just now, and there's some wet country up there isn't there?
Jeez, I googled some place called Westgate, sounded really rough.....at 39.99" annually,
and Stanhope a bit down the valley at 36"0,
or up the valley, Nenthead at 40".

I've found the presumption is that us Southern Nancies wouldn't know what weather is, which is why I quote the specific figures.
Generally, experience is that if a man doesn't know the figures, it's because they are such that he doesn't NEED to know.
 

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

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Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

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As reported in Independent


quote: ā€œRed Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in Aprilā€œ

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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