25cm row spacing

Discussion in 'Direct Drilling Machinery' started by ajd132, Jan 5, 2019.

  1. ajd132

    ajd132 Member

    Location:
    Suffolk
    what do people think of this on heavy clay BG land for winter and spring cereals. I've been to look at the same on some kinder land and didn't see an issue. But we have had a very good autumn for zero till. Unfortunately the 12m Horsch avatar only comes in 25cm.
     
    Farmer Roy likes this.
  2. Brisel

    Brisel Member

    Location:
    Dorset
    Look at Jeff Claydon's crops. He's only just down the road & with a 7" A share will normally only get a 3-4" band of seed on 31.5cm row spacing. That's around where you're talking about for the Avatar.

    If you're not tilling the soil in between the rows, you should get less BG germinating...
     
  3. ajd132

    ajd132 Member

    Location:
    Suffolk
    My drill is 5inch bands on 30cm and don't reallu have any issues with that.
     
    Brisel likes this.
  4. Wigeon

    Wigeon Member

    Despite what people say, I'm afraid I do think that a narrow slots 25cms apart is too wide for most cereals. My "trials" at tramline and field scale of horsch with metcalfe 12mm knives vs horsch with 5inch Dutch coulters suggest latter is best, though in a full non inversion tillage regime. An aggressive tillerer would help I'm sure though.

    Re Brisel's blackgrass point, unfortunately this doesn't apply with tines I reckon, as you'll get soil throw between the rows no matter how slowly you drive. There might be fewer germination between the rows, bit they are still there.

    Sorry not really relevant to the avatar, but there we are.
     
  5. Will7

    Will7 Member

    I think it is great. Been doing it for 5yrs and overcome a major bg problem during that time. Only issue has been with spring barley drilled with the prevailing wind, if the barley brackles it drops between the rows making it harder to pick up.

    A lot less disease in cereals, ability to drill osr between last years stubble, you get a mini “edge” effect resulting in larger heads and I have noticed a slightly higher bushel.
     
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  6. Will7

    Will7 Member

    If you are ever on the A17 in Lincs you are more than welcome to pop in and see for yourself
     
  7. 25cm on cereals would be considered to be narrow - average row spacings here
    we tend to go wider partly for better trash flow ( BIG thing for us is retaining ALL our stubble / ground cover. Zero till doesn't work without retaining crop residues ) & also for cost. At say $2000 / row unit, the price difference over a 12m machine on 150mm spacings compared to 300mm is substantial . . .
    most cool season crops here are grown on 250 - 375mm row spacings
    375 might be a bit wide, not enough weed suppression between rows, but better airflow for less disease issues & as stated, much easier to plant between last years rows
     
  8. Banana Bar

    Banana Bar Member

    Location:
    Bury St Edmunds
    I would be concerned with 25cm. I remember seeing blackgrass last year almost showing in rows where a Horsch on 5 “ Dutch Coulter’s had been used. At 20cm it wouldn’t bother me in the slightest, you could argue it’s only another 50mm!
     
  9. ajd132

    ajd132 Member

    Location:
    Suffolk
    Yes totally agree but if it was only being used for zero till?
     
    Brisel likes this.
  10. Banana Bar

    Banana Bar Member

    Location:
    Bury St Edmunds
    Possibly, really like the look of the 12m Avatar for this. Had a good look at the Sky drill today, looks a very well put together drill.
     
  11. ajd132

    ajd132 Member

    Location:
    Suffolk
    Isn't it a Moore? To be honest I think there is a lot of good drills for no till now, can get too hung up on the drill choice I think!
     
  12. Banana Bar

    Banana Bar Member

    Location:
    Bury St Edmunds
    I’m too young to know what a Moore was like. Agree mustn’t get too hung up on drill choice but why would you buy the wrong one?
     
  13. ajd132

    ajd132 Member

    Location:
    Suffolk
    The main attraction of the 12m avatar is the cost per meter.
     
  14. Wheatonrotty

    Wheatonrotty Member

    Location:
    MK43
    Quite happy drilling on 25cm, been doing it for a couple of years with Metcalf points on a co6. We're on Bedfordshire clay, definitely less BG between the rows I think partly due to less growing and partly due to the pre ems working better on in disturbed ground. The first year we drilled with them I double drilled some at half rate at about 30 degrees to give an indication of closer spacing, no difference in BG or yield but bushel weight was better on the wide spaced stuff.
     
  15. Spud

    Spud Member

    Location:
    YO62
    The main aim of crop establishment is surely maximum ground cover in the quickest time? Arguably harder to achieve with later sown winter cereals than in spring. We have a ph combi on 150mm spacings thats fine, the extra width over its 125mm predecessor helping in difficult conditions. In addition we have a direct disc drill on 125mm spacings with large diameter notched discs that copes with whatever we throw at it very well.
    Slightly different is a Kockerling tine drill with 7 17" shares across its width - in theory this covers all of the ground with seed, in practice its not quite that refined, but certainly works well for beans.
    In the past a contractor drilled us some crops with a Claydon - ok, but too much bare ground for too long did add to the weed pressure.
    250mm to me would be at least 50mm too wide, without it being a spreader type tine drill, like a Claydon or Horsch duett.
     
  16. ajd132

    ajd132 Member

    Location:
    Suffolk
    I agree in part, the idea behind the avatar is to be able to establish wheat earlier because it's zero disturbance.
     
  17. Spud

    Spud Member

    Location:
    YO62
    To be truly zero disturbance, it wouldn't touch the soil, surely?
     
  18. ajd132

    ajd132 Member

    Location:
    Suffolk
    Zero till/low disturbance.
     
    Spud and Farmer Roy like this.
  19. err, hows this for zero disturbance ?
    on 333 mm spacing
    PS - planting canola ( OSR )
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    pretty much zero disturbance here as well, apart from the blocked row on the end
    when this machine is humming nicely the only way you can find the plant row is from the effect of the heavy chain harrows dragging some stubble

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2019
    T Bourne likes this.
  20. we can get an Avatar here on 167 mm spacings . . .

     
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