2nd sheep fluke dose time?

[hubbahubba]

So all ewes had Triclabendazole treatment mid october before tups went out. Now looking to do with trodax this year. Do many have vet look at dung for adult flukes? Worry if the triclabendazole got nearly all fluke, the trodax or flukeiver kills to 7 weeks say its only killing 2nd half october and november fluke picked up? Ewes in good form but by christ its been wet! Had resistance to Triclabendazole so extremely reluctant to use it again. May need to use trodax now and flukeiver at housing.

 

[Macsky]

How about Trodax now and a fluke rate dose of rycoben or similar at housing, if you’ve no white drench resistance, or if worm burdens aren’t a worry, fair bit cheaper than flukiver.

 

[Nithsdale]

When do you house?


I'm basically a month ahead of you - triclabendazole all ewes in September. Ewes are then all done with Flukiver in December. Trodax will be used end of Jan/start of Feb - I was advised this was the better way round, rather than Trodax first then Flukiver...


Your other option is Flukiver, twice, 8 weeks apart.

 

[hubbahubba]

When do you house?


I'm basically a month ahead of you - triclabendazole all ewes in September. Ewes are then all done with Flukiver in December. Trodax will be used end of Jan/start of Feb - I was advised this was the better way round, rather than Trodax first then Flukiver...


Your other option is Flukiver, twice, 8 weeks apart.

We used raniade 2018, flukiver February 2019 so was just going to go to tradax as havnt used it for few years.

They got there 2nd fluke dose first week in feb last year and they never needing another dose that season. We will start housing end of February.

Maybe should take dung to vets, i just worry if i do that i am only tested a handfull of ewes in each lot.

 

[Farmer_Joe]

ha ha just thinking same, did mine oct with combinex (Triclabendazole) gonna do fluckiver soon, like you they look well its been very wet...

 

[Farmer_Joe]

We used raniade 2018, flukiver February 2019 so was just going to go to tradax as havnt used it for few years.

They got there 2nd fluke dose first week in feb last year and they never needing another dose that season. We will start housing end of February.

Maybe should take dung to vets, i just worry if i do that i am only tested a handfull of ewes in each lot.

debating same, last year i only did twice, but im sure just pre-lambing they lost shape due to fluke, this year i was going to do jan then fluke and womer pre lambing. when are your ewes due?

How close to lambing do you do last treatment.

 

[hubbahubba]

debating same, last year i only did twice, but im sure just pre-lambing they lost shape due to fluke, this year i was going to do jan then fluke and womer pre lambing. when are your ewes due?

How close to lambing do you do last treatment.

Start lambing 15th march. Basically thinking the longer i leave it the more chance they will only need 1 more dose. Last year we checked dung during lambing and no adult flukes so we never dosed at turnout.

Last year we never wormed pre lambing on vets advice but we had to worm lambs early, i was never sure if that was because ewes were sheding more worms at turnout? Would any experts advice when best to worm ewes if i want to do them once a year? @neilo ?

 

[Farmer_Joe]

we have always done them pre lambing, i think the adhb research recommends this too?

I do take vets advice but after using this forum i think a variety of opinions are worth comparing, not saying any are right though!

As i understand (reading research from adhb or someone else cant remember exactly) during pregnancy decreases the ewes immune system making it more susceptible to worms, assuming i fluke soon (next few days) i was considering trialing another flucke and worm pre lambing? mine are due 1st april.

This is based on last year when im sure there went to sh!t before lambing, just did std of fluke wormer sept/oct then fluke jan. I did get tests done but they said they were fine but after reading sometimes it can take a while for the fluke to show up in dung, only proper way blood test?

 

[neilo]

Start lambing 15th march. Basically thinking the longer i leave it the more chance they will only need 1 more dose. Last year we checked dung during lambing and no adult flukes so we never dosed at turnout.

Last year we never wormed pre lambing on vets advice but we had to worm lambs early, i was never sure if that was because ewes were sheding more worms at turnout? Would any experts advice when best to worm ewes if i want to do them once a year? @neilo ?

I hope you’re not suggesting I’m an ‘expert’.?

If you are intent on worming them once @ year, I would suggest that lambing time must surely be the most sensible time, as that’s about the only time when they are less immune to worms, and then shed more eggs. Thin or stressed ewes also have immunity compromised, so worth doing them imo. A FEC at lambing time might put your mind at rest, or prove you need to do them?

I have tried leaving them without worming at lambing time in recent years, but I’m not convinced it’s the right thing to do, where sheep are run at commercial stocking rates (maybe different where ewes are run very extensively?). Lambs have certainly seen a greater challenge early on, but then no two seasons are the same to allow a proper comparison and mid-season drought has reduced worm challenge here for the last 2 years.
When I used Cydectin LA at lambing time for a couple of years, it certainly reduced the worm challenge to lambs through to weaning. That’s all very well of course, until it doesn’t work any more, and that product is a fast track to that scenario (although still promoted by one local SQP!)

Jury’s definitely still out on worming ewes at lambing as far as I’m concerned.

 

[neilo]

I did get tests done but they said they were fine but after reading sometimes it can take a while for the fluke to show up in dung, only proper way blood test?

You can send a pooled poo sample off to Biobest for a Cuproantigen test, which detects fluke before eggs are shed. It only costs about £15 iirc and doesn’t need (expensive) vet involvement at all.?

 

[Farmer_Joe]

I hope you’re not suggesting I’m an ‘expert’.?

If you are intent on worming them once @ year, I would suggest that lambing time must surely be the most sensible time, as that’s about the only time when they are less immune to worms, and then shed more eggs. Thin or stressed ewes also have immunity compromised, so worth doing them imo. A FEC at lambing time might put your mind at rest, or prove you need to do them?

I have tried leaving them without worming at lambing time in recent years, but I’m not convinced it’s the right thing to do, where sheep are run at commercial stocking rates (maybe different where ewes are run very extensively?). Lambs have certainly seen a greater challenge early on, but then no two seasons are the same to allow a proper comparison and mid-season drought has reduced worm challenge here for the last 2 years.
When I used Cydectin LA at lambing time for a couple of years, it certainly reduced the worm challenge to lambs through to weaning. That’s all very well of course, until it doesn’t work any more, and that product is a fast track to that scenario (although still promoted by one local SQP!)

Jury’s definitely still out on worming ewes at lambing as far as I’m concerned.

when do you worm yours as a std annual time then?

do you get much fluke issues where you are, last few years have been tricky here with wet winters...

Your right on the summer lamb worming rates mine have been much lower last 2 years due to dry weather excellent growth rates too.

Found this in a sheep nutrition pdf i found by elbex and scotish government or somthing.

''Not all ewes however are equally infective to the pasture. The protein available to ewes is prioritised to body maintenance, reproduction and finally mounting the immune response. Multiple bearing ewes in late pregnancy have to break down body protein reserves to supply glucose to keep their lambs alive. Ewes rearing twins excrete 70-80% more worm eggs than ewes rearing singles, especially if they are in a poor condition. Therefore, it may be worth grazing single rearing ewes separately, and targeting twin-rearing ewes with extra protein. The additional protein needed for multiple–bearing ewes can be fed as 200 g soya per head per day during late pregnancy, increasing to 400 g soya per day during early lactation. Similar effects can be expected from 125 and 250 g/d of protected soya e.g. SoyPass.''

 

[hubbahubba]

I hope you’re not suggesting I’m an ‘expert’.?

If you are intent on worming them once @ year, I would suggest that lambing time must surely be the most sensible time, as that’s about the only time when they are less immune to worms, and then shed more eggs. Thin or stressed ewes also have immunity compromised, so worth doing them imo. A FEC at lambing time might put your mind at rest, or prove you need to do them?

I have tried leaving them without worming at lambing time in recent years, but I’m not convinced it’s the right thing to do, where sheep are run at commercial stocking rates (maybe different where ewes are run very extensively?). Lambs have certainly seen a greater challenge early on, but then no two seasons are the same to allow a proper comparison and mid-season drought has reduced worm challenge here for the last 2 years.
When I used Cydectin LA at lambing time for a couple of years, it certainly reduced the worm challenge to lambs through to weaning. That’s all very well of course, until it doesn’t work any more, and that product is a fast track to that scenario (although still promoted by one local SQP!)

Jury’s definitely still out on worming ewes at lambing as far as I’m concerned.

100% expert! So basically at heptevac time 4 weeks before lambing or just at housing be better worming ewes? Guess at housing then they will shed eggs in shed but maybe too late if there immunity drops before then....

 

[neilo]

when do you worm yours as a std annual time then?

do you get much fluke issues where you are, last few years have been tricky here with wet winters...

Your right on the summer lamb worming rates mine have been much lower last 2 years due to dry weather excellent growth rates too.

Found this in a sheep nutrition pdf i found by elbex and scotish government or somthing.

''Not all ewes however are equally infective to the pasture. The protein available to ewes is prioritised to body maintenance, reproduction and finally mounting the immune response. Multiple bearing ewes in late pregnancy have to break down body protein reserves to supply glucose to keep their lambs alive. Ewes rearing twins excrete 70-80% more worm eggs than ewes rearing singles, especially if they are in a poor condition. Therefore, it may be worth grazing single rearing ewes separately, and targeting twin-rearing ewes with extra protein. The additional protein needed for multiple–bearing ewes can be fed as 200 g soya per head per day during late pregnancy, increasing to 400 g soya per day during early lactation. Similar effects can be expected from 125 and 250 g/d of protected soya e.g. SoyPass.''

I don’t do any ‘standard’ worm drenching according to time of year. Last year I worked all the thin ewes (plenty of those due to Iodine deficiencies ), shearlings, ewe lambs and the handful of triplets. I left the rest. I did them when I did the pre-lambing jabs, when they were on roots (so clean grazing until lambing). I FEC tested some of the lean ewes at that stage (high FEC), which is why I did them then, and checked a few at lambing time (low).
I do any lean sheep when I bolus a month before tupping, but not any fit ewes.

We had terrible fluke problems here in 2012 (like everyone), and kept doing them in the Autumn/Winter after that. When the cuproantigen test became available I started testing the most at risk group in November (grazing round lake & rushes) but they’ve always come back clear so not fluked. Vet & I were both surprised and reckon it might be down to the many hundreds of geese that come to visit/graze every Autumn, along with ducks, grazing the snails?
I have also sorted quite a few drains and laid water troughs on so that they aren’t drinking from dew ponds any more though.

 

[Farmer_Joe]

Very interesting, I think I may leave my Fluke till scanning time perhaps, have you a link to this test I will give it a try £15 is well worth it to find out

recently I’ve been leaving fit ewes out of worming, amusingly my late father said you can’t miss any and insisted doing them all painstakingly catching one if it got missed!

good idea on the bolus for skinny one too

 

[neilo]

Very interesting, I think I may leave my Fluke till scanning time perhaps, have you a link to this test I will give it a try £15 is well worth it to find out

recently I’ve been leaving fit ewes out of worming, amusingly my late father said you can’t miss any and insisted doing them all painstakingly catching one if it got missed!

good idea on the bolus for skinny one too

They all get a bolus pre-tupping (& at scanning), but only the lean ones are wormed pre-tupping. We have a few TE deficiencies & lock ups to contend with here.

All the testing info & submission forms are on their website (www.biobest.co.uk).

 

[dt995]

We're definitely a wet farm here, but we had the FEC look for fluke as well and it came back negative.

High worm burden though, so treating for that.

 

[Macsky]

Having a pig of a day, have way through them and they took a gate off it’s hinges and mixed, fortunately the Trodax bottle seal seems to be made of plastic rather than rubber and leaks all over the place, so not too hard to figure out who’s been done ??‍??‍??‍

 

[Nithsdale]

Having a pig of a day, have way through them and they took a gate off it’s hinges and mixed, fortunately the Trodax bottle seal seems to be made of plastic rather than rubber and leaks all over the place, so not too hard to figure out who’s been done ??‍??‍??‍

Happy accident for today, but;

I take the rubber bung out of those sh*tty Trodax bottles and pour it into a normal 2.5l dosing bottle. Do away with the 'needle' draw end on the pipe which goes into those bottles, replace it with a normal dosing bottle end. We use tiny jubilee clips so everything seals properly. No worry of a leak like you have there, or catching it and pulling it out if the bottle. The Trodax is on your back just like a normal dose so feels more comfortable.

We changed to this to do the cattle so we weren't faffing about with changing over bottles regularly, but the injector screws down to do a sheep too. Just fill the bottle as much as you need and away you go

 

[Macsky]

Happy accident for today, but;

I take the rubber bung out of those sh*tty Trodax bottles and pour it into a normal 2.5l dosing bottle. Do away with the 'needle' draw end on the pipe which goes into those bottles, replace it with a normal dosing bottle end. We use tiny jubilee clips so everything seals properly. No worry of a leak like you have there, or catching it and pulling it out if the bottle. The Trodax is on your back just like a normal dose so feels more comfortable.

We changed to this to do the cattle so we weren't faffing about with changing over bottles regularly, but the injector screws down to do a sheep too. Just fill the bottle as much as you need and away you go

This seems sound advice, another 370 to do tomorrow if the weather allows, I think this will be the technique!

 

[neilo]

Having a pig of a day, have way through them and they took a gate off it’s hinges and mixed, fortunately the Trodax bottle seal seems to be made of plastic rather than rubber and leaks all over the place, so not too hard to figure out who’s been done ??‍??‍??‍

Bugger! Have you got any on your hands yet? Haven’t done the job properly unless you have ‘Trodax finger’ to prove it.