3 in 2 lambing

[polk_farmer]

Following on from another thread. Has anyone had experience of 3 in 2 Dorset lambing, or know of anyone who does it? Thought about it before, but that was as far as it got

 

[neilo]

The used to do it at Harper in the 80's, and we're very proud to show us the sheep unit when we visited in 86 (with a view to attending). My father and I were both shocked by the state of the sheep, which looked like sh*t. The system was dropped not long after, apparently because they struggled to get enough condition on the sheep to conceive many lambs the next time round. Having seen the flock, I would quite believe it. They were working hard but didn't have long enough, or good enough nutrition, to recover condition before tupping. I seem to remember the flock had quite a replacement rate because of it.

To provide enough nutrition to get over that, you would be tied into a high input system for what, at certain times of the cycle, would be a low output operation.

 

[Bury the Trash]

Following on from another thread. Has anyone had experience of 3 in 2 Dorset lambing, or know of anyone who does it? Thought about it before, but that was as far as it got

yes new one or 2 that used to do it,not know of anyone into it nowadays that i can think of though - youve got to absolutely love lambing......

 

[JD-Kid]

when i was talking to the IDF guys in ozzie there was an area close to them doing 3 in 2 lambing not high % 100-100% per lambing but that makes 300-330% for the 2 years giveing them 150-165 % a year
good for areas with close to all year round growth and mild weather
ewes doing high lambing % could be harder if they pull them selfs down too much

 

[polk_farmer]

The used to do it at Harper in the 80's, and we're very proud to show us the sheep unit when we visited in 86 (with a view to attending). My father and I were both shocked by the state of the sheep, which looked like sh*t. The system was dropped not long after, apparently because they struggled to get enough condition on the sheep to conceive many lambs the next time round. Having seen the flock, I would quite believe it. They were working hard but didn't have long enough, or good enough nutrition, to recover condition before tupping. I seem to remember the flock had quite a replacement rate because of it.

To provide enough nutrition to get over that, you would be tied into a high input system for what, at certain times of the cycle, would be a low output operation.

Yes I did think that they would have to be fed well to get back to condition. Especially after a winter lambing.

 

[neilo]

Yes I did think that they would have to be fed well to get back to condition. Especially after a winter lambing.

IIRC they were selling about 180% from each lambing (Cambridge x Dorsets, using sponges & PMSG to boost numbers), with a proportion not conceiving and dropping back to the next group. I suspect they didn't get counted in the lambing %age, so annual average wouldn't have been much over 160% sold. That was when there was a healthy premium on Easter lamb too, which you couldn't rely on now.

If you do a Google search on Harper Adams you might find some write ups on the system. But that was pre-Internet days, so might never have got that far.

 

[polk_farmer]

IIRC they were selling about 180% from each lambing (Cambridge x Dorsets, using sponges & PMSG to boost numbers), with a proportion not conceiving and dropping back to the next group. I suspect they didn't get counted in the lambing %age, so annual average wouldn't have been much over 160% sold. That was when there was a healthy premium on Easter lamb too, which you couldn't rely on now.

If you do a Google search on Harper Adams you might find some write ups on the system. But that was pre-Internet days, so might never have got that far.

Yea I have seen a write up about the harper sheep. I can't remember if it was on the British Farming Forum, it said on there the sheep were looking a tad rough. May have even been you saying it. I wasn't really thinking of it as a conceivable option. Just wondering if anyone had success doing it. I can't help thinking getting a high lambing percentage off grass and no lambs touching hard stuff would be just as good, if not better. By the time you take the big feed bills and high replacement rates.

It has a little bit about it in 'the veterinary book for sheep farmers' wrote in the 80's. Where it likens it to intensive pig or poultry for output!

 

[Northeastfarmer]

It's bad enough lambing once a year never mind twice

 

[JohnGalway]

Hmm lamb in the winter, maybe twice in two years, in this part of the world.......



Thanks, but no thanks

JD hit the nail on the head, you'd need an awful kind climate with grass growing nearly all year. Can't see stuffing feed into sheep all year 'round, then the lambs at least once if not twice in two years paying.

 

[sherg]

Does @General-Lee do this I've seen pictures of newborn lambs recently on the today at work thread

 

[General-Lee]

Does @General-Lee do this I've seen pictures of newborn lambs recently on the today at work thread

No we don't just take advantage of the breed being able work/lamb earlier, with the aim of hitting the 'Easter market' plus the unfertilised parkland here drys up summertime.

Bar a few tail-enders we've finished lambing the 1st batch.

 

[Philip Watkins]

IIRC they were selling about 180% from each lambing (Cambridge x Dorsets, using sponges & PMSG to boost numbers), with a proportion not conceiving and dropping back to the next group. I suspect they didn't get counted in the lambing %age, so annual average wouldn't have been much over 160% sold. That was when there was a healthy premium on Easter lamb too, which you couldn't rely on now.

If you do a Google search on Harper Adams you might find some write ups on the system. But that was pre-Internet days, so might never have got that far.

I was there 83-86. I thought they were using Finn-Dorsets, can't remember much (wasn't interested in sheep) but think they were getting quite a few triplets.

 

[neilo]

Hmm lamb in the winter, maybe twice in two years, in this part of the world.......



Thanks, but no thanks

JD hit the nail on the head, you'd need an awful kind climate with grass growing nearly all year. Can't see stuffing feed into sheep all year 'round, then the lambs at least once if not twice in two years paying.

The winter born lambs would stay indoors, so matters not what the weather's doing. You've got a polytunnel now, so set up for it.

 

[neilo]

I was there 83-86. I thought they were using Finn-Dorsets, can't remember much (wasn't interested in sheep) but think they were getting quite a few triplets.

That was it, my bad. I think they went onto Cambridge Welsh Speckles next, when they went to 'normal' lambing, IIRC. About the time I left, I believe they went in with Wolford collage, running Lleyns.

 

[andybk]

you would burn your ewes out quicker , pretty sure a year round lambing breed like the pollie is best lambed out of season in oct @ around 150 - 165 %, run through on cheap winter dairy grass and held till needed to capitalise on higher spring prices , but to do this well they need to be crossed with a char / tex maybe belty , as a pure , the dorset goes fat quick , and has dodgy feet ,and lambs are buggers for not getting out the bag ,(the char will sort this issue ) trouble is too many store lambs coming out early season ,diluting trade
that said maybe very late lambing in june / july and lambs kept through , but then you have to deal with feet , etc
3 times in 2 years would end up a mess after a while , as there is no real break for worms / cocci etc and the ewes need a rest , or next crop will be poor lambs

 

[Bury the Trash]

v. tight ship needs to be run -those ewes still need a good rest a some point in the breeding cycle- even then i agree with above ewes -not last so long in yrs.Go with the charole would be my advice -but def. not texel btdt.- not good x.ime.Then the trouble is buying flock replacements which are mostly v. expensive for decent pure breeding.and breeding yr own replacements -same problem getting that good pure ram and keeping seperate nucleus flock for the purpose.
Most used to do it that didnt have dairy etc .-it was a way of intensifying -to better use labour etc when mixed with smaller arable set up or the like.

 

[JohnGalway]

The winter born lambs would stay indoors, so matters not what the weather's doing. You've got a polytunnel now, so set up for it.

Sure that's the problem! Ewes and lambs left indoors for extended periods, just great for encouraging disease. Not to mention the expense, my thin wallet (just the Gold card today) is trembling at the thought

Great idea for processors, feed mills, forage traders , pharma companies and politicians.... Terrible idea for the farmer IMO - perfect climate excepted.

 

[Nithsdale]

Pretty sure @taff was lambing (Dorsets?) back in October.

How about 4 lambings in 2 years. Run 2 flocks - one traditional spring lambing, then a 2nd out of season September lambing. Instead of asking 1 flock to lamb 3 times.

Not sure its any better an idea but it may be easier managed - and alot better on the sheep?

 

[slaney]

Pretty sure @taff was lambing (Dorsets?) back in October.

How about 4 lambings in 2 years. Run 2 flocks - one traditional spring lambing, then a 2nd out of season September lambing. Instead of asking 1 flock to lamb 3 times.

Not sure its any better an idea but it may be easier managed - and alot better on the sheep?

I suppose doing it that way would leave you with the expense of lambing out of season and the hassle of lambing twice a year without any of the intensification benefits

 

[andybk]

Pretty sure @taff was lambing (Dorsets?) back in October.

How about 4 lambings in 2 years. Run 2 flocks - one traditional spring lambing, then a 2nd out of season September lambing. Instead of asking 1 flock to lamb 3 times.

Not sure its any better an idea but it may be easier managed - and alot better on the sheep?

thats what we used to do , dorset x char through winter , scotch halfbred x char spring , only worked because dorsets were on keep all winter so rested our own ground , they then ate the crappier grasses through spring , summer , while the shb had the best with lambs at foot