3rd wheats?

[Andy91]

Has anybody tried growing a 3rd wheat and been successful with it in recent times. Only in our 3rd year of growing cereals having ploughed a couple hundred acres of old sheep pastures. Disease has been relatively low and no black grass on the farm. Had 2 years of growing Costello feed wheat and enjoyed really good yields this time. Only heard negative assessments of growing 3rd wheats. Is there any measure to changing variety such as moving to a bread/biscuit wheat?

 

[FarmerBruce]

Has anybody tried growing a 3rd wheat and been successful with it in recent times. Only in our 3rd year of growing cereals having ploughed a couple hundred acres of old sheep pastures. Disease has been relatively low and no black grass on the farm. Had 2 years of growing Costello feed wheat and enjoyed really good yields this time. Only heard negative assessments of growing 3rd wheats. Is there any measure to changing variety such as moving to a bread/biscuit wheat?

Lather it in muck and drill mid October dressed with latitude and it’ll be fine

 

[PSQ]

I've been growing 3rd wheats since I dropped poverty grass winter barley in 2002, usually yields 3.8-3.9 t/a over the weigh bridge, and Grafton suits the 'early' slot as an entry for OSR.

The problem I have with 3rd wheats is the preceding 2nd wheat yield only averaging 3.6 t/acre, which is a big drop from 4t 1st wheat, but it shows that the 'take all' dip only really lasts a year here.

 

[db9go]

I've been growing 3rd wheats since I dropped poverty grass winter barley in 2002, usually yields 3.8-3.9 t/a over the weigh bridge, and Grafton suits the 'early' slot as an entry for OSR.

The problem I have with 3rd wheats is the preceding 2nd wheat yield only averaging 3.6 t/acre, which is a big drop from 4t 1st wheat, but it shows that the 'take all' dip only really lasts a year here.

What is your break crop yield

 

[Gong Farmer]

On some soil types second wheats are fine, it's the third wheat that gets the take-all. This is generally the case following grass though, where the worst take-all is delayed.

I suppose if you get good second wheat yields, you'll have bad third wheats, and vice versa,

 

[Flat 10]

I've been growing 3rd wheats since I dropped poverty grass winter barley in 2002, usually yields 3.8-3.9 t/a over the weigh bridge, and Grafton suits the 'early' slot as an entry for OSR.

The problem I have with 3rd wheats is the preceding 2nd wheat yield only averaging 3.6 t/acre, which is a big drop from 4t 1st wheat, but it shows that the 'take all' dip only really lasts a year here.

Witness good yielding in Scotland @Sonoftheheir . I know only one example

 

[4course]

On some soil types second wheats are fine, it's the third wheat that gets the take-all. This is generally the case following grass though, where the worst take-all is delayed.

I suppose if you get good second wheat yields, you'll have bad third wheats, and vice versa,

a catch crop in between wheats and not sowing in sept seems to have helped to level yields up here

 

[spikeislander]

I’m keen to try 3rds after a forced 3rd wheat this year we drilled as osr failed did very well .
We are heavy land but kitted up well so I think could get the ground up and drillable for a catch crop fairly quick .
If I’ve got the terms right ?
Would it then sit and grow long enough to allow late drilled wheat to go in ?
And ultimately have any effect as a break crop on take all levels ?
Also what catch crops would suit this ?
Already got winter barley booked for this slot but if it’s over produced a reasonable 3rd wheat may be a better option .
We are holding our own with bg and happy with progress but don’t want to step back .

 

[goodevans]

I asked the very same question in one of the dd threads suggesting continuous wheat with cover crops in between as being a sensible way of getting on top of grass weeds,early harvested wheat followed by mid to late October drilling

 

[Pan mixer]

We have just harvested a third wheat after 40 years of grass, it was fine, better yield than last year (when there was a drought though) all 3 years about the 4 t per acre, we had to do a small herbicide for meadow grass this year as it was getting a bit thick last year.

Half will go into 4th wheat but we may have to spray for wild oats next time, no blackgrass at all though so far.

 

[goodevans]

We have just harvested a third wheat after 40 years of grass, it was fine, better yield than last year (when there was a drought though) all 3 years about the 4 t per acre, we had to do a small herbicide for meadow grass this year as it was getting a bit thick last year.

Half will go into 4th wheat but we may have to spray for wild oats next time, no blackgrass at all though so far.

Where did the wild oats come from,were they in the seed or combine or were they really dormant for that time

 

[bobk]

3rd wheat with a bit of take all often beats other options , OSR is the obvious choice but not always suitable for some ground or systems

 

[Pan mixer]

Where did the wild oats come from,were they in the seed or combine or were they really dormant for that time

combine I presume

 

[bobk]

combine I presume

Wild oats come from outer space ,

 

[4course]

spiekeislander, here north north yorks you are possibly too late to get any real benefit, bedfordshire to me is unknown territory ,It would depend on your planned latest sowing date that normally doesnt impinge on yield ,a catch crop such as mustard does a fair bit of good below ground ie below plough depth weve found without necessarily showing a lot up top , we reckon a minimum of 6-7 weeks preferably more from sowing of catch crop to sowing of wheat following seedbed 75% cultivation i.e only needs a quick pass and drill wheat as the mustard just disapears. We aim to sow the catch crop in the 3rd or 4th week of august and sow 2nd or 3rd wheat before the 20th oct with a cut off that we have not breached of 24th as the land sown with catch crop will travel a lot better than ploughing and sowing , our old system, or early plough and wait, which just resulted in cobbles or a bog and puddling it in

 

[spikeislander]

Thankyou for that yes I’m aware I’ve missed the boat for this year it was just some pondering really.
If I try next year I’ll really crack on and get it seeded quickly .

 

[spikeislander]

Bit of a long shot as I appreciate the take all fungus is in the soil and carries through to the third wheat from second but do you think the cover crop gives any relief?

 

[rob1]

We have only grown cereals with the odd one year grass break since 2012, not seen any take all in the wheat yet and this year we have had record wheat yields for us, DD'ing is meant to help with take all and perhaps our experience shows that is true, if it wasnt for the fact that we want barley and some oat straw for customers I would be very tempted to just grow continuous wheats as the GM without straw is hugely in favour of wheat, if we lose glyphosate then it might be forced on me unless we can find a way of removing volunteers, certainly the grass will have to stop

 

[spikeislander]

We grew cont wheat successfully for 25 plus years but controlling the black grass became our biggest challenge.
We got swept along with early drilling in the day , later drilling would have helped that

 

[Wheatonrotty]

I’m keen to try 3rds after a forced 3rd wheat this year we drilled as osr failed did very well .
We are heavy land but kitted up well so I think could get the ground up and drillable for a catch crop fairly quick .
If I’ve got the terms right ?
Would it then sit and grow long enough to allow late drilled wheat to go in ?
And ultimately have any effect as a break crop on take all levels ?
Also what catch crops would suit this ?
Already got winter barley booked for this slot but if it’s over produced a reasonable 3rd wheat may be a better option .
We are holding our own with bg and happy with progress but don’t want to step back .

We had some 3rd wheat that did very well and like yours it was after failed osr. I think it performed partly because of the dry winter and partly because of the nitrogen that was put on the osr. I think I'm right in saying that if you have sound reasoning you can put some n on cereals in the autumn (but this may be more applicable to no till with the lack of mineralisation). The weather is more of an issue and a late drilled 3rd wheat followed by a wet cold spring may not be great. That said if it stays as dry as we are at the moment there'll be 3rd wheats in here again.