4 day week

onesiedale

Member
Location
Derbyshire
The average British worker is amongst the least productive in the world's advanced economies, I'd wager that a part of that is down to people being forced to sit idly in 40 hour/week jobs which could be done in half the time. A lot of jobs have seen a great many of their functions whittled away through the years mainly due to technological advances.
iirc this is called "Parkinson's law"
Making the work in hand fit the time available
 

DrWazzock

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lincolnshire
During this pandemic, and now that the Mrs is retired we have kind of lost track of what day of the week it is and when it’s the “weekend”. We just work as we need to sometimes for 10 days in a row then have three lighter days or whatever suits. The idea of working a certain number of hours is irrelevant to us as we work to complete tasks not to rack up hours.
 

BrianV

Member
Livestock Farmer
Who would want to live the life of a Chinese worker ? no ta.
Fine to say but one day & it will come mass unemployment will return & there will be no one to blame but ourselves, everyone including politicians believe in the magic money tree that produces money for whatever is needed with no one ever having to settle the bill, companies only survive when making profits by keeping ahead of the competition!
 
It could be to do with staff retention, all in all there still having to put in the hours, a lot firms offer flexi time working, this is just doing 5 days work in 4, cannot really see the problem,
Gota be better than doing 5 days work in 7, like a lot do
 

Lincoln75

Member
Fine to say but one day & it will come mass unemployment will return & there will be no one to blame but ourselves, everyone including politicians believe in the magic money tree that produces money for whatever is needed with no one ever having to settle the bill, companies only survive when making profits by keeping ahead of the competition!
The UK isn't doing too bad compared with the rest of Europe hence a lot of foreign investment here in the last two years , shorter working days/hours will actually mean more jobs in areas where a role has to be carried out seven days a week, living to work is a sad existence .
 

DrWazzock

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lincolnshire
I struggled with the fixed hours when working in an office. It made it mind blowingly tedious for one thing. I often struggled to stay awake some afternoons after a big helping of apple pie and custard doled out by the jovial lady in the works canteen with the steady murmur of the open plan office and the hum of the air con, while looking for errors in an instrument database or something equally soporific. It was like a deep litter house for humans. No natural light and if the aircin had stopped I think would all have suffocated. Here I can sleep after my lunch if I’m tired and work later into the evening and still get the job done. I still have nightmares about that office with the boss in his special compartment at the end calling people in for a rocket. You could it all going all, the body language, and etc but you couldn’t hear what they were saying. Quite a comedy if you weren’t relying on it for a living.
 
So. Will they all give up their "public holidays" as a trade off? Or would that mean a lot of 3 day weeks as well??
And I highly doubt any of them would get 5 days work done in 4.... why would most people care....It will still be there next week...

Xmas would be good.....already get 2 extra days off if it falls on a weekend.....More chance with an extended weekend...
 

melted welly

Member
Location
DD9.
She's like the Duracell bunny, she never stops.
[More like a 'Rampant Rabbit', that wont stop until it's completely ****** the country ]

Back on thread, a 4 day week might be fine for public sector workers and those 'working in Non Jobs' like MSP's at Holyrood. Fireman, retire early on well funded public sector pension. Police too. Teachers, council workers, and the rest of the 20% Scottish public sector; reduced hours all paid from the existing government pot, and more nurses to cover shifts.

But where does it leave the self employed? The brickies, plumbers, hauliers, farmers / farm workers etc etc? Does it mean having 3 days overtime a week at harvest instead of 2? Does it mean delivery drivers having to squeeze extra hours in to the driving day? More taxes to pay for all the 'free' prescriptions and free university education at St Andrews for the sons and daughters of Scotlands wealthiest?

What it does mean is Nicola standing to one side while Patrick Harvie fulfils his promise to stop "the endless cycle of economic growth", as Scotland is sent back into the old cycle of increasing poverty and failing private industry, as more companies decide that it's not worth considering Scotland as an affordable place to start or continue their business.

They live in a different world to what I know.

This will be very popular with same folk who want more public holidays, yet expect the cafe to be open when they go to the park and expect the shops/attractions/car wash open on a Sunday.

Why not just shut everything on Sundays? like they still do over on the west. 🤔 oh that’s right, wouldn’t suit the comfortable urbanites lifestyle.
 

BrianV

Member
Livestock Farmer
The UK isn't doing too bad compared with the rest of Europe hence a lot of foreign investment here in the last two years , shorter working days/hours will actually mean more jobs in areas where a role has to be carried out seven days a week, living to work is a sad existence .
The UK is a service economy surviving on a money merry go around which is fine until the music stops & one section stops playing the game, when the next recession comes & interest rates rise it’s then we will see just how well we are doing.
 

Lincoln75

Member
The UK is a service economy surviving on a money merry go around which is fine until the music stops & one section stops playing the game, when the next recession comes & interest rates rise it’s then we will see just how well we are doing.
That has been said for a long time but fortunately has never been the case in recent times ,

Sectors That Contribute to the Economy​

"According to the U.K. Office for National Statistics (ONS), the services sector is the largest sector in the U.K., accounting for more than three-quarters of the GDP. The service industry in the U.K. comprises many industries, including finance and business services, consumer-focused industries, such as retail, food and beverage, and entertainment. Manufacturing and production contribute less than 21% of the GDP, and agriculture contributes about 0.60% "

U.K. Exports​

"U.K. exports were worth £689 billion in 2019, or 31.1% of GDP.11 Cars were the biggest goods product group by value at £31.6 billion.12 Financial services accounted for £63.2 billion of total exports in 2019.13 The EU is the country's largest single trading partner and accounted for 43.5% of exports in 2019 "
 

BrianV

Member
Livestock Farmer
That has been said for a long time but fortunately has never been the case in recent times ,

Sectors That Contribute to the Economy​

"According to the U.K. Office for National Statistics (ONS), the services sector is the largest sector in the U.K., accounting for more than three-quarters of the GDP. The service industry in the U.K. comprises many industries, including finance and business services, consumer-focused industries, such as retail, food and beverage, and entertainment. Manufacturing and production contribute less than 21% of the GDP, and agriculture contributes about 0.60% "

U.K. Exports​

"U.K. exports were worth £689 billion in 2019, or 31.1% of GDP.11 Cars were the biggest goods product group by value at £31.6 billion.12 Financial services accounted for £63.2 billion of total exports in 2019.13 The EU is the country's largest single trading partner and accounted for 43.5% of exports in 2019 "
Cars, financial services & exports to the EU are on course to take a large hit so maybe that time may not be so far away.
 

kiwi pom

Member
Location
canterbury NZ
Other than people that work for big companies and office staff what industry is going to benefit from this? Office workers have already been deemed to be more productive with better morale the past 18 months due to working from home anyway. Not just productivity benefits but the environment, less cars needlessly on the road, etc.

Is my local tractor dealer going to benefit and work any more efficiently by only being open mon-thurs? Unless they want to take on more staff to be open on the Friday and saturday morning? Might suit someone who only wants part time work? Would others have to implement something like a 4 on, 4 off kinda thing?

It's like trying to get blood from a stone to get a lot of people to do anything these days anyway, so many firms and organizations spend so much time pis$ing about as it is, what makes anyone think they're going to be any better with an extra day off?

I'm glad I enjoy my work and luckyily quite often don't really see it as 'just work' that the scheme doesn't interest me one bit.
Does your tractor dealer only have one person? Four days a week doesn't mean everyone has to work the same days. I bet the parts staff and mechanics cover 7 days now?
And who does the work on the fifth day some guy whose only working one day a week?
There's 7 days in a week and many businesses run 24/7. Four on four off or similar patterns are already very popular.
Flexible hours suit some jobs and not others.
If the individual employee can do the same work in 4 days, why not?
For things that require people to be there every day, you just need a roster.
 

Lincoln75

Member
Does your tractor dealer only have one person? Four days a week doesn't mean everyone has to work the same days. I bet the parts staff and mechanics cover 7 days now?

There's 7 days in a week and many businesses run 24/7. Four on four off or similar patterns are already very popular.
Flexible hours suit some jobs and not others.
If the individual employee can do the same work in 4 days, why not?
For things that require people to be there every day, you just need a roster.
Exactly that , been going on for years , nothing new , staff can over lap shifts or not , what ever suits the job.

I also believe you`ll get more out of the staff if they get long breaks between working their working week / four days .
 

Bill the Bass

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Cumbria
The problem I see, as had been stated is inflation. If a white collar worker gets the same money for 30 hours a week as 37.5 previously, the only way the self employed bricky,spark,plumber, project manager, accountant, you name it can keep up is by upping their day rate by 20%. That is unless they reduce the tax burden on the self employed but I can’t see champagne socialist scotland doing that.
 

onesiedale

Member
Location
Derbyshire
Of course one downside to giving people a 4 day week is that they will simply go out and get a second job because they have so much spare time on their hands.
A bit like all those furloughed workers who got paid 80% salary this last year then went out driving for Amazon.
The unintended consequence is that whilst some employers will no doubt suffer increased costs, there will be a sub market of labour creating a whole new labour market operating outside the 'rules'
 

kiwi pom

Member
Location
canterbury NZ
The problem I see, as had been stated is inflation. If a white collar worker gets the same money for 30 hours a week as 37.5 previously, the only way the self employed bricky,spark,plumber, project manager, accountant, you name it can keep up is by upping their day rate by 20%. That is unless they reduce the tax burden on the self employed but I can’t see champagne socialist scotland doing that.
The self employed do it because they don't want to be employees and can set their rates and hours of work. Employed workers seem to be having a bit of a catch up at the moment.
Perhaps better rates and hours will lure the self employed back into full time employment?
It does seem to be the self employed that are always criticising the employed.
 

CHAP Webinar - Innovative tools to overcome the challenges of Regen Ag

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